Ep 23: Ditching Dating Apps & Toxic Relationships To Build Self-Worth And Attract The Right Person
Welcome to Dating Greatly.
Raise your hand if you ever did something on a date that you didn't want to do...
*all women everywhere raising their hands*
My guest, Stefanie Wilson, says this about herself: "My work is not for light fluffy unicorn cute stuff- my work is in the dating underworld we've all been hanging out in because of SHAME."
In today's episode we descend into the Dating Underworld and reflect how our (cringe-worthy) dating experiences were mirrors to make us see our total lack of self-worth.
Don't worry, we're not going to hang out in the Dating Underworld forever! After all, this podcast is meant to inspire, motivate and encourage, so that's what we're gonna do!
Get ready for cringe, oniony eyes, A-HA moments and deep healing.
Enjoy this oh-so-important-conversation!
READ ALONG
Yvonne [00:00:00]:
Thank you so much, Stephanie, for joining me today. I am super stoked to talk to you today.
Stefanie [00:00:06]:
I am, too. I'm really excited that we connected.
Yvonne [00:00:10]:
Awesome. Yes. And I want to talk about all things dating apps and dating app experiences, good and bad. So, yeah, I guess I'll start off with just asking you what it takes to be a Tinder veteran.
Stefanie [00:00:33]:
I think Tinder veteran. I think it refers to this idea that I have outgrown the Tinder environment. And I think what it takes to be a Tinder veteran is to be someone that has been on Tinder for X amount of years consecutively, and has been on and off of it enough to know what it's about and what it brings out of me personally, just in my own life, and graduating from that and putting it behind me and knowing that it's behind me, I think that that's, like, the perfect definition of a Tinder vet and what it takes to become one.
Yvonne [00:01:16]:
Yes. Yeah. Amazing. And how long were you in this on again, off again relationship with Tinder?
Stefanie [00:01:26]:
I'm going to say about a good seven years.
Yvonne [00:01:29]:
Okay.
Stefanie [00:01:30]:
I was on and off Tinder for seven years, and my ons were no more than maybe a couple of weeks, a month at the most, and then my offs would last several months.
Yvonne [00:01:46]:
Okay.
Stefanie [00:01:47]:
And that was just the pattern for me for all those years. And there was a point in time where I think I just got tired of it and decided that it just wasn't something that I wanted to participate in anymore. But seven years of playing around on Tinder.
Yvonne [00:02:12]:
Oh, my goodness. Do you remember where you were at in your life when you first tried it? When you first tried? And was it just tinder you tried, or was there different dating apps you experienced with, experimented with?
Stefanie [00:02:27]:
Oh, 100%. So Tinder was always my all time favorite because I think Tinder gave the most immediate gratification. It was, like, instant. And whereas I always looked at bumble and hinge as dating apps that were for people that were serious about looking for love and finding love, whereas Tinder had a little bit of a different reputation, and I was in a place in my life where I was in denial about who I was, and things in my life that needed attention, and those areas of my life that needed attention were things that I wanted to avoid as much as possible. And so I think the overall, the place I was in my life, the things that are standing out to me the most, at least emotion wise, were I was feeling bored, I was feeling unfulfilled. I was feeling like a sense of like, I had this issue with feeling really worthless and unattractive and unwanted. And now that I'm looking back at that time, I had low self esteem. Like, very low self esteem, and I wasn't very connected to myself.
Stefanie [00:03:42]:
And so Tinder was that dating app of my choice. It was like my drug of choice, because I knew that if I posted, and I remember at the time, I was, like, overweight too. And I knew that if I posted some good filtered selfies and put a cheeky little bio that for me, it was a matter of seeing who I could match with. And I remember the high of how it would feel, feeling, like, super bored, super lonely on a Friday night. I didn't have any significant, maybe social plans. I wasn't that girl that was, like, going out on the dates. Like, I would see other more attractive women going on or hearing about. And Tinder kind of provided me with that feeling of being wanted and fulfilled, and it entertained me.
Stefanie [00:04:44]:
Yeah. So Tinder was the drug of choice. Bumble and hinge weren't as entertaining.
Yvonne [00:04:49]:
Interesting. And it makes sense when you're in a place like that where you're feeling bored and not good about yourself and you don't have any plans and being in that lack state then to receive messages or to see who you matched with. Yeah, instant gratification. And that would just feel so good.
Stefanie [00:05:09]:
Oh, I loved the attention. I loved it. And I loved how much of it I would get. To me, it was quantity over quality.
Yvonne [00:05:23]:
Okay?
Stefanie [00:05:24]:
The more the better. And there's this initial rush that you get within the first three days because of how fast the matches are coming and the messages are coming. And then there's that place where I would hit the wall. It's like, oh, so it's all coming fast. I'm feeling so like. And then it felt like I would hit a wall where it would feel overwhelming and too much, and I couldn't keep up with it. And then I would notice myself getting right back to that emotional place of being bored and unfulfilled. Hence the on and off.
Yvonne [00:06:01]:
Yeah, totally. And you said that you would be on for, what did you say? Three weeks and then off for a few months?
Stefanie [00:06:08]:
Okay, yeah. On at the most would be like a week, up to a month. Right. And then once I noticed, and at the time, I didn't know this, right. But once I noticed those feelings coming back of being bored and unfulfilled, and I started to see, like, oh, man, this isn't really doing it for me the way I thought, or I would have a round of I meet someone, and all of a sudden we're in this ambiguous situation that starts out really fast. It's like a relationship that lasts maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a month, and then it fizzles out. Once I've been in either one of those, or the app isn't working for me the way that I thought it would. I would just be like, it's not working, and I would delete it.
Yvonne [00:06:59]:
Yeah. Interesting. And did you ever go on any dates, or did it stay mostly conversation?
Stefanie [00:07:08]:
Oh, my gosh. Did I not go on dates? I stayed going on dates.
Yvonne [00:07:12]:
Okay.
Stefanie [00:07:16]:
Initially pre weight loss, I was very hesitant about going on dates. I would keep everything online, and I would lead the men on into thinking that there would be a date. But then when it came time to go on the date, I would always flake out because I was worried about what they would think of me once they saw me in person. And I thought that maybe I would be considered a catfish because from the chest up, it looked like maybe I was fit or whatever, but I just knew from the chest down that I didn't feel very good about my body at that time. So dates were on the table, but a lot of the time, I would just not go. I would flake out because I was scared to be seen. And then I went on a weight loss journey. And I remember when I went on my weight loss journey, one of the things I was looking forward to the most, like, once I lost weight, was like, I can't wait to get on Tinder and show off this new body and be wanted and be attractive.
Stefanie [00:08:19]:
I just really thought that attraction was about the way I looked. Right. And so post weight loss, I remember downloading Tinder and the amount of matches I got were just way beyond anything that I had ever seen before the dates. And I was going on dates all over the. I was. And in my state at the time I lived in Indianapolis, I was going on breakfast, lunch, and dinner dates. Like, there were times in one day I would have three dates. I would have dates all week long.
Stefanie [00:08:51]:
And I remember I joked with my friends, I'm like, I really don't need to go grocery shopping because I just keep going on dates and I don't need to cook at this point in time. Or I would fly out of the state and go meet these guys because I would set my tinder location to different states to meet people.
Yvonne [00:09:07]:
Wow. Oh, my goodness. As you're talking about, I'm like, oh, my God. The amount of energy that would take so was that still giving you that? At what point did that get too much?
Stefanie [00:09:22]:
You know what? For a while there, I would say for about a good year, I was living my best life, doing the trips out of state. It was something I had never experienced before. It was like this. I had felt like most of my life, like I was really unattractive because I was overweight. And I had always felt like that. I was the fat girl with the great personality in my friend group that men would always overlook. And I remember I had this very deep desire to be wanted, to be picked, to be chosen, to be in demand. I wanted to feel that way so badly.
Stefanie [00:10:02]:
And I would see my friends that were fit and pretty and they just had to do this, and guys would just be lining up around the block. Meanwhile, I was always like that wingwoman for my friends. And I remember just wanting. So for about a good year, I was just like, oh, my God, it's coming my way. It felt like scarcity. It was just like I had to entertain these dates, these men, these opportunities, because this is my only chance to feel wanted. This is the only way in which I'm going to feel attractive. It's so interesting how my mind wasn't caught up with my body yet, right? I still felt like that fat, unattractive, unwanted, undesired woman.
Stefanie [00:10:45]:
And I just thought these external, like, oh, this guy wants to fly me to Miami. This guy wants to do this. It just made me feel like this superficial level of, like, I'm attractive, I'm wanted, I'm desired. But when I would be with those men, every single time, I was uncomfortable, I was nervous, I was anxious, I felt ashamed of myself sometimes. The next morning, if I've decided to do something that I didn't really want to do, and I was just like, in a lifestyle that wasn't aligned with who I really was, but I didn't know that at the time. So I felt like trash. I felt like trash while I was doing that, too.
Yvonne [00:11:29]:
Wow. Yeah. Just your story. It brought up a lot for me as well. And everything around the self worth piece and seeking that from others. And of course, you were like, as these men are showing up, wanting to fly you all over the place, buy you dinners, just so very obviously showing you not love, but appreciation and validating you, validating you so that you want to suck all that in. And why would you ever pass up an opportunity to feel validated in who you are like that?
Stefanie [00:12:02]:
It was so addicting, too. And I remember those grieving. It was almost like when I didn't have the dating app, I felt lost. Or when the high that I would experience when I noticed it was starting to come down and I realized life is still as it is for me. When that goes away, it was, like, devastating, almost, that I was still this person, that I was still in this place in my life, that life was still moving on, that I was still avoiding myself, essentially. And I just loved being able to check out. That was always my drug of choice. It was just being able to check out of everything and then get lost into, like, a fantasy of some kind.
Yvonne [00:13:02]:
Yeah. Because those highs of that pleasure and those super amazing feelings, like, why would you not want to take that in? And then when it's gone, you're just left with yourself and your same old issues.
Stefanie [00:13:21]:
Like dating apps. Please take me away. Honestly. Yeah.
Yvonne [00:13:25]:
Wow. And so when did you have that realization? Or when did it stop for you? When you said, this is enough? Or when you, I guess, recognized the deeper issue?
Stefanie [00:13:39]:
Oh, yeah. So it was like the summer of 2021. I remember I was, like, seeing this guy that I met on Tinder, and we met in Chicago, and he came from Dallas, I came from Indianapolis, we met in Chicago. And we had been talking for a while about meeting up and all the things. And I remember while we were. Did, one thing that I loved that we did together is we went to go see the Obama portraits at the art institute. That was such a fun experience. And I remember at the end of the night, he got a room with two beds.
Stefanie [00:14:22]:
And because I specifically requested that, because at that time, I was kind of transitioning into a different version of myself, but I wasn't quite foundationally grounded into the changes that I was making in my own personal life. Like, I was still feeling a little wobbly. And so I remember that night I was kind of adamant about not sleeping with him, but then there was this part of me that's, like, such a people pleaser at that time that is so worried about what people think about me and making everyone happy and wanting to be liked, wanting to be approved of. And I had this very deep rooted fear of telling someone no when they wanted something from me. And this is not with all people. It was just more so with someone that I would be attached to in a romantic way at some capacity.
Yvonne [00:15:17]:
Right. Yeah.
Stefanie [00:15:18]:
There was something about him that, at the time, I really was drawn to men that were emotionally unavailable. Right. So, anyway, long story short, somehow we ended up sleeping together the very next morning. I felt like absolute garbage trash. I bald my eyes out in the bathroom. I hated the way I felt, and it was time for us to part ways, and this was the turning point for me. We went to the airport, and at the time, I didn't really have TSA pre check or whatever. And I remember he left me at the TSA thing to go through the thing by myself.
Stefanie [00:15:56]:
As he walked himself through pre check, and the entire time at the airport, he acted like he didn't know me, didn't really want to talk to me, was really short with me. He was a completely different person than who he was when I initially met him. And it was in that moment of being at an airport with someone that hardly wanted to talk to me. After I violated myself and betrayed myself again by telling myself I wasn't going to do something, but then doing it to make someone else happy and then feeling like shit and ashamed afterwards, it was like in that moment that I was like, I cannot keep doing stuff like this to myself. This does not feel good. Why am I spending my precious time with people that treat me like this?
Yvonne [00:16:48]:
Mmhmm.
Stefanie [00:16:52]:
Why am I doing this? It did not feel good sitting there. Yeah, I was really exposed. I just felt like everyone at the airport was looking at me. I just felt like I wanted to hide. I was grieving. I still remember that. And it just was very dark. And I just knew at that point in time, I didn't necessarily understand the exact steps that I needed to take to kind of stop doing that or stop ending up in situations like that.
Stefanie [00:17:22]:
But I just knew that I was going to figure it out and why I was doing all of that in the first place.
Yvonne [00:17:31]:
Yeah, that sounds like a really powerful experience. And I'm sure there's, like, I know in your story, I see myself. I feel myself in that story. I'm sure there's so many women. How many times have we done things that we didn't want to do to please or even, oh, well, he came all this way, or he did this for me, so I've got to reimburse or whatever with my body. It's unbelievable. But, yeah, in your story, and thank you for sharing that and that vulnerable moment that I feel like a lot of women can identify with.
Stefanie [00:18:15]:
Yeah. And you know what? Looking back now from this place where I'm at in this moment is like this. The reason why I would choose those situations over choosing myself were for several reasons. It's like, one, I didn't know how to choose myself. I didn't know that I was allowed to choose myself. I didn't like the discomfort and uncertainty around choosing myself because I didn't believe that maybe something else would come along that could be so much better than what I had imagined. I was also feeling like this level of responsibility to give people what they are asking me for. Even just talking about it now, I feel so, like, fired up.
Stefanie [00:18:59]:
It's like this. And I almost want to cry. It's like this. I knew I didn't want that. And I could not understand time and time again why I was choosing that for myself, why I could not figure that out. And it's just like there was a void that I was trying to fill and no one else could fill it for me. And it was because I didn't know how to fill it for myself. And that felt very disempowering.
Stefanie [00:19:35]:
And I almost felt like I couldn't make the decision to choose myself because what was going to fill that hole in my soul? What was going to do that for me? I didn't know how.
Yvonne [00:19:47]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:19:51]:
And no one did it for me. And it was just this cycle of looking, who's going to do it? Who's going to help me feel happy? Who's going to help me feel confident? How am I ever going to feel wanted? When am I going to be desired? When am I going to be that lady that I see? All those other beautiful women that have the nice bodies and these perfect lives and just add a flip of their hair can get a man to just do anything that they want. It's just like I wanted that so badly, did not know how to get it, and I went around it the wrong way, and it just always left me feeling robbed. My spirit would be so drained. It was know. Have you ever read Harry Potter? Were you a Harry Potter fan?
Yvonne [00:20:32]:
I didn't read the book, no. But I might be able to know what you're talking.
Stefanie [00:20:38]:
Well, I. Growing up, Harry Potter was my world. I was obsessed. And there's this part of the book where there's these dementors, and what they do is they suck people's souls, like, their energy, their magic from them, and they leave you kind of like, just like not even. Yeah, right. And I would go out and it's like these men were like the mentors, and when I would make the decisions to fulfill them, it would leave me even emptier.
Yvonne [00:21:11]:
Yeah. Wow. They would just come and suck your spirit out a little bit more.
Stefanie [00:21:18]:
I let them, yeah.
Yvonne [00:21:24]:
It's interesting how so many of these situations, the experiences we had dating or with men or with these not nice situations, it's like a mirroring of how we felt about ourselves. We were disrespected, we were taken advantage of. We were used and fed crumbs or whatever, but that's what it comes down to, what we felt we deserved. There was no self worth or very little.
Stefanie [00:21:52]:
Oh, my gosh. Are you kidding me? You nailed it. We mirror how we feel about ourselves, and it's like the relationships we have in our life really reflect that. And honestly, for me to even say at the beginning of this conversation that my drug of choice was Tinder because I knew Bumble and hinge. And obviously, what I'm presuming about all the other dating apps, I think every dating app is a melting pot of a variety of people, no matter where you go. Right. But at the time, knowing that on Tinder, I would find more of the Bs, more of the instant gratification that tells me everything I need to know about where my head was at at that point in time in my life. The fact that I would purposely put myself in harm's way, all the while telling myself that's not what I was doing.
Yvonne [00:22:51]:
Yeah. After that moment in the airport where you said you just wanted to disappear, you just wanted to hide and just feeling so horrible, where did your journey take you from there?
Stefanie [00:23:07]:
Well, I remember that that was the last time I had Tinder, and I had deleted Tinder at that point in time, and I still had a lot of connections that would hit me up that I have met from Tinder, and I just didn't have Tinder. And I remember that at the time I was going to therapy, but in therapy, one thing I never really wanted to address was, like, the relationships I was having with men, my on and off again situations that I would find myself in over and over and over again. And I remember I started talking to my therapist about that, and there was still a person in my life outside of the guy at the airport that I had been seeing on and off. We actually met on Tinder six years ago, and him and I had been seeing each other on and off for the last. At that time. That last six years. But he was going through a divorce when I met him. Just saying this out loud now.
Stefanie [00:24:30]:
I'm just, like, compassionately laughing at the ridiculousness of how it sounds, but at the time, this was like real life for me.
Yvonne [00:24:37]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:24:38]:
So I had still been seeing him on and off for six years. And so, mind you, I'm off Tinder, the guy from Chicago, I put him on a shelf and decided for a while, I was just not going to deal with him because I didn't like the way I was treated. And I was still going back to my on and off again lover or whatever. Whenever I didn't feel good in life, it was easy to go and go to him, because for at least a weekend, I could feel like I was in a relationship. But even though it wasn't. So I remember between deleting Tinder, right, and then really focusing my therapy on this area of my life. And I remember I never thought in a million years that I would ever want to stop seeing my Tinder lover from six years prior. And I remember there was a day where I finally decided I was like, I really want to have a relationship with this person.
Stefanie [00:25:40]:
I really want to tell him how I feel about him because I was secretly in love with him. And I was kind of hoping that he would change for me. I was hoping that he would finally choose me one day. And so my therapist and I talked about the ambiguity of our relationship and how I needed to start making some decisions, like the decision I had made to delete Tinder. So that was one decision. The next decision was to start ending my open, ambiguous situation ships. And I slowly started telling these people when they'd hit me up, hey, I'm not available to hang out. Hey, I don't want to go.
Stefanie [00:26:19]:
And I remember, you know how when you play a video game at the end, once you get to a level, there's like that big boss that you have to finish off. At the time I deleted Tinder, that was like letting go of one of the bosses. And then the little situationships that were a little meaningless to me, I started letting those go. Right. But I still was holding on to the one that I really, really wanted, but didn't want to admit myself to myself, that it was probably not for me.
Yvonne [00:26:47]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:26:48]:
So, long story short, he came to visit me one day in Indianapolis. He came all the way from Arizona. And I told myself that I was finally going to tell him how I felt about him because that was like this open chapter in my life that was keeping me from moving on in my own journey with myself. Right. Looking back now, all of this was just the journey that I needed to take to develop a better relationship with myself. And I knew that that was kind of in the way.
Yvonne [00:27:18]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:27:19]:
So I told him, we kind of had a few drinks. I told him how I felt about him. And in the car, he told me, you are not a woman I would ever date. This has just been a really fun, physical thing. It's been easy and stress free for me, and you're just not the kind of caliber woman that I would ever put on that pedestal. He was like, I usually date women that have things going on in their career that aren't single moms. I have one daughter. She's adult now.
Stefanie [00:27:49]:
She actually is in the navy now, but at the time, she was, I think, a teenager, and he was just, you're not it.
Yvonne [00:27:57]:
Wow.
Stefanie [00:27:59]:
And sitting in that car, knowing that for probably six years, I was holding on to hope that it was finally going to be the two of us and that the little situations I engaged in in the meantime were just something to kind of fill me until he finally decided to choose me and to hear from him that he was never going to and that I had been giving myself to someone that never had the intention.
Yvonne [00:28:27]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:28:31]:
That was the wake up call that I needed.
Yvonne [00:28:33]:
That must have been tough.
Stefanie [00:28:38]:
It was devastating, because, you know why? The fantasy that I was hanging on to and now that I didn't know I was doing it at the time, but now that I'm said, I would hang on to a fantasy that kind of kept me delusional and checked out so that I wouldn't once again have to face. Learning how to fulfill myself, learning how to love myself, learning how to take care of myself, learning how to be with me, because hearing. I think there's, like, a lot of self helpery out in the universe, out in the world, and then feeling, like, resentful when I would see people that actually did love themselves and have a good relationship with themselves. And when I would see that, I would feel so resentful because I didn't understand how to do that. So that was the day in my life that the rug was pulled out from underneath me, and I no longer had my fantasy where I was lying to myself about my life and who I was and where I was headed. Like, I didn't have that to hang on to anymore.
Yvonne [00:29:52]:
Wow. So it was just you at that point?
Stefanie [00:29:54]:
It was just me. And it was at that point in time, I realized I was like, no one's coming to save me. I'm giving myself to people that really don't give an F. I'm just a body that pleasures them. And while they're being pleasured, I feel like shit. I'm doing this to myself.
Yvonne [00:30:21]:
And almost like, that rejection in the car from him, like, I would have never chosen you again. Just like, this mirroring of you not having chosen yourself for that long. Just reality check.
Stefanie [00:30:38]:
And the deep down bottom I knew this isn't good for me. I shouldn't be here. I'm not the kind of person that wants this. I have a deeper understanding of myself today than I ever have. And it's like I'm a gentle soul. I'm a sloth. Like, that's my spirit animal.
Yvonne [00:30:59]:
Right?
Stefanie [00:31:00]:
I like to be handled with care. I like to take things very slow. I'm a deeply emotional human being that genuinely loves connecting to people on an emotional level. I like to have intellectually stimulating conversations. I don't like things that are really fast and easy and things that are going to feel unstable.
Yvonne [00:31:25]:
Wow.
Stefanie [00:31:26]:
And the way that I used to date was fast, quick, easy, unstable. And it was through my conditioning of not feeling like I was ever enough. And I needed to give everything I could right up front in order for someone to see and recognize my value and worth, my enoughness. I never saw that in myself.
Yvonne [00:31:46]:
Yeah. Just everything that you're talking about today is bringing up so much for me. Like, I'm listening to you. And then at the same time, there's so much coming up around this and recognizing my own self growth around that and then recognizing the still remaining patterns that are still around. On the subject of self worth, on the subject of not being good enough, on the subject of giving too much of myself to others, I'm feeling it all today.
Stefanie [00:32:21]:
And I don't know how you're feeling right now, but it's just like even revisiting that, it just feels like such a vulnerable place. Because I think for me, it's like to think that there was a point in time in my life that was okay.
Yvonne [00:32:42]:
Yeah. It really illustrates how we're hurting deep down. Really. Like how we treat ourselves that or how we did treat ourselves that way. We're hurting inside. That's really the only way to see, I guess. Yeah.
Stefanie [00:33:06]:
And wanted to share something that pertains to the ambiguous situation. Something that I just have recently done is that over the last year, remember Chicago guy? So recently, over the last year, he's been hitting me up a lot lately. And I did not have the courage to tell him to stop contacting me, that I wasn't going to take a trip with him. And for about a good year, he was planning trips with me. He wanted to take me on vacation several different times. And I would always make up an excuse as to why I didn't want to go. Right. But I wouldn't tell him the truth on why I didn't want to go.
Stefanie [00:33:44]:
And I felt like he still needed to be in my life for some OD reason.
Yvonne [00:33:47]:
Reason, right.
Stefanie [00:33:48]:
Recently, he invited me, probably about three, four months ago. Hey, do you want to go to Mexico? I'd love to see you. I miss you so much. I sent him a voice note, and I was like, I just want you to know you're probably never going to see me again. I hate the way you treated me at the airport, and it felt very demeaning to me. And I understand now that you're not a man that's interested in building a life with me. You're a man that's looking to be entertained from time to time. So I would really appreciate it if you take me off your roster.
Stefanie [00:34:17]:
We're done.
Yvonne [00:34:18]:
Wow.
Stefanie [00:34:21]:
To me saying that, can I tell you, I felt sick to my stomach finally speaking up to myself, to someone that I had deemed so powerful. And the same thing goes for my lover that I never thought I'd get over, is being able to see him in person. And at the end of the night, where I would typically go to his hotel room or typically go to his house or kind of go against my own better judgment on what was best for me, I was like, okay, well, have a good night. I'm going home. It was really great to catch up with you for dinner. See you later. Choosing myself now. Thank you.
Stefanie [00:35:01]:
And I didn't have to think about it. It was just something I wanted to freaking do.
Yvonne [00:35:07]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:35:09]:
The emotional aftermath, the emotional hangover, how I was required to take care of myself after speaking up for myself. Was that part that for many years, I didn't have the ability to walk myself through?
Yvonne [00:35:25]:
Yeah. Because that can bring up so much, like, so much fear. And who are you to say these things? Or. I remember I shared something with my man, like, a month ago or something. And it was like, I always think, like, oh, I'm pretty vulnerable and open. Yeah, sure. But when it's still safe for me. But in this moment, I was being vulnerable.
Yvonne [00:35:48]:
And as I started talking, my voice started to go raspy, and then I couldn't speak. It went away. I was like, I had to clear my throat, and I started coughing because there was a physical reaction, trying to suppress this vulnerability because of the fear. Like, this isn't safe to express your feelings like this. So I did get through it, but there was a large physical reaction.
Stefanie [00:36:14]:
Wow. That feels so, like, there was, like, this level of. I felt, like, kind of comforted by you sharing that, because it's really easy to go into that territory of I'm doing something wrong by telling someone. No, I'm responsible for their feelings. I'm wrong for not giving them this. I should be trying to make them happy.
Yvonne [00:36:44]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:36:45]:
That's extremely uncomfortable.
Yvonne [00:36:47]:
Yeah, it is. Like, when we change what we're used to, when we change our patterns, when we choose a new way, it takes a while to get comfortable in that.
Stefanie [00:37:01]:
And even now, to this day, it's like, so I'm still single now, and that's fine. I knew I needed to take some time to. I've been taking time to be with myself. I travel alone. I go do things alone. I really just have enjoyed being with me. And I'm at a place now where I genuinely enjoy my own company most of the time. Right?
Yvonne [00:37:25]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:37:26]:
And I have been dating, but my dating kind of lately has been when you go to the beach and you're, like, running in and you want to make sure the water is okay and you put your feet in it, and then you run back, and then you go back and you go in just a little bit more. That's kind of where I've been at, but it's not like this thing where I'm all over the place or leading people on. It's kind of like I've been getting my feet wet. And what I've been practicing is just this very. I call it, like, dating in sloth mode. It's just I'm in this slothy. We're just having come. I don't want it to go too fast.
Stefanie [00:38:09]:
I don't want to get wrapped up in a fantasy. I don't want to allow myself to become so enmeshed and involved early on and doing this new way of dating where things are intentional and I'm looking at character and I'm aligning my values with another person and really walking my own talk. That's uncomfortable. And there are moments of discomfort I'm feeling only because I'm not giving into instant gratification culture. When it comes to the way dating has evolved over the last maybe ten years, dating has become more of a way, an outlet to dive deep into the pool of instant gratification versus, hey, are we building a future together or what?
Yvonne [00:39:08]:
Yeah. I love that you're really taking your time, like, sloth mode and trying this new thing, which is obviously, like, it's what you need and you know that. And then still that discomfort that comes up from that. At times when we're doing something new and similar. For me, with any relationship I got into, it would be fast commitment, real fast, everything really fast. And with this relationship. It's slow, and it's so unlike anything. And I have to constantly remind myself, trust.
Yvonne [00:39:48]:
Trust him to lead. Sit back. You always did it the other way. Try it this way. And some days, I'm like, I need to know what's happening, right? I need to know where this is going, what is this, and all this control piece. But then when I'm able to know trust, it's okay. Just be in the moment. Enjoy it.
Yvonne [00:40:15]:
Let him lead, and just lean back. And so far, it's been exactly what I need. Even though at times, I'm like, I don't like this at all. But it is what's good for me. I'm, like, having to constantly remind myself, this is good for me. This is what I need.
Stefanie [00:40:36]:
And then also, I think, even though I'm not in the relationship yet, but I think the part in the date building something like what you have, because I'll be honest with you, I am such a hopeful romantic, and I always have been. I grew up watching those time period dramas where the ladies are running through a field and the handsome suitors at the house waiting to marry her. And she's rebellious about it at first, but then she falls in love. That's my fantasy. I want to wear the fancy dress and run through a meadow and want to be in love, right? And it's, like, the part that I think where I have to be with myself the most, this is so emotional is when I'm putting myself out there. And sometimes the evidence lines up in such a way that maybe I might not get that love story right. And I'm not saying that I don't believe that I will. I 100% do.
Stefanie [00:41:46]:
But sometimes the evidence stacks up, because when you go through this period of. I found myself sometimes on dates or dating someone that reminds me of someone that I would used to go for, fall for. And when I would start seeing, like, I always have, like, this 90 day rules. I call myself a sex sloth, too, right? So it's like, I sex sloth. And it's like, for me, it's like 90 days of really focusing and getting to know someone, to start peeling those layer back. Because I think we all present a version of ourselves that we want someone to like us at first. And that's natural to do as a human being, right? Take some time to peel that back. But sometimes when I start noticing, oh, wait, this is not something I want.
Stefanie [00:42:31]:
Our values aren't really lining up or your actions and your words aren't aligning in a way that and I start seeing like, this isn't going to work out for me.
Yvonne [00:42:40]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:42:40]:
And I assess it. I don't just immediately judge, I take time, I communicate, I assess. And when that evidence starts stacking up, that, oh, no. When you're making these connections and they just don't work out, it's hard to be with myself sometimes during those moments to remind myself that all of this is happening for me, to continuously redirect me to my person. And that is when I need to be with myself the most. And can I tell you, I still sometimes feel challenged by that.
Yvonne [00:43:16]:
Yeah, I hear you again. Trusting that it's all working out the way it's supposed to, that you're on the right track and that it's bringing you closer to your person, to your companion that's looking for you, like the way you're looking for them. And, yeah, I feel that, like, constantly reminding myself, trust, let go, it's going to work out. This is the best route for you.
Stefanie [00:43:51]:
And I love that you brought up the word control. It's like it's not in my control. It seriously isn't. It's surrendering to the foundation that I built for myself and trusting that that's enough. I'm enough.
Yvonne [00:44:08]:
Yes.
Stefanie [00:44:09]:
Someone will see me. Someone will think that my weird, like, I'm so freaking weird. That's something that I finally embraced with myself. I'm quirky. I'm weird. I have a crazy sense of humor. I'm not like the lady that has ever been like, oh, I want to be like the Carmen Electra really judged up sex symbol iconic. You know what I mean? I was like, I've never really wanted to be that.
Stefanie [00:44:37]:
I've always felt pressure to try to be sexy, but it's like, I'm sexy in my own way. I'm like the sexy scientist, whatever, right? It's like, weird. And knowing that there's someone out there for me that's going to see me and be like, hey, I really like your vibe. And not paying attention to quantity over quality, because I think a lot of the times, even as we've evolved as a culture, to believe that quantity is better than quality. Like, case in point, how many likes you get on tinder or matches is more important than the quality of matches? Or how many likes you have on Instagram is more important than how you feel about yourself. You know what I mean? We've kind of subscribed to that. So not forcing myself to look at the numbers of what's working out, what's not and then using that against myself, I feel like sometimes can be a challenge, too, because it almost feels like I'm supposed to do it this way, how everyone else is doing it, but I prefer to do it this way. Can I give myself permission to just march to the beat of my own drum in this life, even though the evidence of what everyone else is thinking or what everyone else is doing shows me that what I'm doing is way different than that?
Yvonne [00:46:03]:
Yeah, that's a challenge, too, right? Like, when you see a certain thing being done a certain way and you're doing it differently, like, oh, am I doing it wrong? There's that saying, and I'm not sure who said it, but it's like, when everyone is doing something the same way, that's a good time to reflect, and how can I do things differently? So I love your approach, and I just know you're going to find your own weirdo, sloth man. Yeah. And that's just amazing when that happens.
Stefanie [00:46:40]:
Two sloths just chilling in this life together. That's just what I want. Sloth man. I do want a sloth man. But then can we talk about, too, how interesting it is when I do meet men that are the opposite of what I've been used to, how that can bring up insecurity? There was a guy that, through my Tinderoni days, he was so emotionally available. He made it very clear he wanted to be with me. He was financially stable, emotionally stable, went to therapy, knew who he was, was very grounded and very patient with me. And he pursued me for a good three years while I was on my BS, pursued me, and I was not giving that man the time of day.
Stefanie [00:47:38]:
Made me feel very uncomfortable, the things sometimes we would talk about, but there was something intriguing about it. It was very different for me, but I did not have the capacity to hold space for him in the way in which that he needed me to. I just recently saw that he got married. He's got twins on the way, and him and his wife are traveling the world. And I couldn't help but think, like, when I saw him in this new place that I'm in now, I was like, oh, my gosh, I want that. I want him. Not him specifically, but how could I not have wanted that back then? And now I want it. And so recently, I told you, I've been kind of, like, getting my feet wet.
Stefanie [00:48:17]:
I started dating a guy that on the very first date, I remember he wasn't throwing compliments at me and wasn't talking about how he's just so physically attracted to me and how I used to really like being with a man and I just wanted that undivided, like, you're so sexy, and I wanted that. Just validation constantly. Right? He wasn't doing that. And he would call or text me once a day and I could tell that he was just taking it really slow with me and wanted to, like. And there was a moment in which I just freaked out. And I was, like, wondering, is he even attracted to me? Why is he even talking to me? I would question his motives because I was so used to being love bombed and falling for that and being so enmeshed in this fantasy of what was coming at me so fast that when it's the opposite way and it's sustainable and slow, it almost felt off.
Yvonne [00:49:23]:
Yes. I think when the person presents itself like the person that we're wanting, that treat us with this respect and that see our worth, I feel like when that person is there, our fears at the same time, at least this is my own experience. When that person finally appeared, my fears went through the roof with like, whoa, what is this? Can this be true? And even now I'm in a place where it's so good, it's so fulfilling. Every time I look at him, I see the relationship I have with myself, and I'm so grateful and I feel so honored that he's in my life. And every time I see, like, wow, this is the relationship I have with myself now. And then at the same time, I'm like, holy shit, I can't lose this. Oh, my God, what if I lose this? Those primal fears are higher than I've ever experienced them because I've always kept my walls up. So I always chose people that were safe.
Yvonne [00:50:39]:
And now here's someone that, wow, this is something different. So it's a daily constant management of my fears. Constant reassurance, constant encouragement. Yeah, it's a lot, but it's also incredibly amazing.
Stefanie [00:51:03]:
It's like when you were speaking, the first thing that kind of came to mind is like this dichotomy of understanding the difference of being involved in situations, any situation in life, like it could be dating, whatever, that have, like a net negative effect on you personally that really leave you kind of further in a hole with yourself or in life or with your goals versus understanding the difference between that and then putting yourself in situations that are just challenging you outside of your comfort zone. But at the end, they leave you with, like, they expand you and they challenge you to kind of go to the edge of your own threshold, in the way that you feel things, in the way that you think about things, in the way that you experience everything. And I just think personally that the point of any relationship that we have in life, including the relationship we have in ourselves, the purpose of that is to help us evolve and grow. It's like growing together. Are we growing together or are we, I don't even know what the opposite of that is right now. Are we growing together or are we losing more of ourselves when we're together? And allowing yourself to feel the discomfort, understanding what's the difference between my, now that I understand what a dysregulated nervous system is a lot of like, when I would date and be around these men, my nervous system would just be a hot mess. I was all over the place. I was a hot, nervous barack.
Stefanie [00:52:48]:
I didn't feel good. I remember my body would be so clenched up, even during sex, I would be clenched up. Like, this feels uncomfortable. I don't feel like I can really let go and enjoy this. Let me pretend like I'm enjoying this, and I hope it's over soon. That was my sex life for many years. I hate even saying that out loud. It makes me sad, but that's really what sex was like for me.
Yvonne [00:53:08]:
Yeah.
Stefanie [00:53:09]:
Let me just give him what he wants. I hope it feels good to him. Let me just.
Yvonne [00:53:12]:
Okay.
Stefanie [00:53:12]:
Is it over yet? Okay, great, that's done. Right? Clenched up, I didn't know what the difference between that was and then this guy that I would just feel so not like, remember the one I was telling you about that was just really coming at me with this comforting presence and the discomfort that came from that. I didn't understand the difference. I felt the discomfort was something's gone wrong versus that usual I used to be addicted to. I don't know if it was addicted to having a dysregulated nervous system, but being dysregulated was normal for me. This is how things are supposed to be. And if it was the opposite, it felt like something's gone wrong because it was uncomfortable and new to me.
Yvonne [00:54:06]:
Yeah, totally. And we stick to the familiar, right? Like, familiar what we grew up with. If we were dysregulated in our childhood or an edge or whatever, those are comfortable, familiar feelings. So anything new, even if it's super healthy and really good for us, is like, what's happening.
Stefanie [00:54:26]:
Yes. It's like you have to acquire a taste for it. It's like an acquired taste.
Yvonne [00:54:33]:
Yeah. And practice as well. Yeah, definitely. Oh, man. I could chat with you all day, I think. Me too.
Stefanie [00:54:44]:
I love talking about dating and relationships.
Yvonne [00:54:47]:
And all the things. Yeah. So where are you at nowadays? And I know you alluded a little bit to it, but, yeah, where are you at?
Stefanie [00:55:01]:
Where am I at in my dating journey? Or just where am I at in life period, or all the things.
Yvonne [00:55:07]:
All the things, yeah. How you incorporate this, like, the dating and relationship into your own work, because I know you're in that field as well.
Stefanie [00:55:17]:
Yeah. So it took me a little bit to evolve. I remember when I first got certified, I was a certified life coach for a while, right. But I'd always known that I wanted to be in the dating sector in some capacity. And when I first entered into the dating sector, I wanted to keep it light and fluffy and cute. Let me just help you all date. Right? And I realized that most of the women that were coming to me were women that came from dysfunctional families and had been in toxic relationships. So I come from a very dysfunctional family, and then because of that, I landed in toxic relationships for a really long time.
Stefanie [00:55:54]:
And so the work that I've done on myself and seeing the kind of women that were coming into my world made me realize, like, I am that person for many women that are hiding kind of in the closet of the dating world, that don't necessarily know how to change their dating habits, like, they're in and out of toxic relationships. They may have just given up on love completely. They may think there are no good men in the world. I just understand them on a level that maybe sometimes they don't understand themselves because I've been in their shoes. So I understood, like, about a good year and a half ago, I was like, oh, my work in this dating sector isn't for the light, fluffy, unicorn, cute stuff. My work is in this dating underworld that we've all been hanging out in because of shame, because of not knowing where to get help with this, not knowing where to start, what to do, and it's challenging. And so I knew that I was more of, like, the dating coach for the underdogs of dating, the underdogs of love, people that have just not experienced anything other than what they had already always experienced their whole entire life. So that's, like, where my work is very passionate about that.
Stefanie [00:57:21]:
And I think where I'm at now, just even in dating in life, is kind of like this walking my talk, so to say. It's just really being in integrity with my work and wanting to. My passion is wanting to innovate the way that we see dating the way that we have relationships, the way that we view love, and the way that we connect to each other in a world that has been taken over by technology and accessibility. I want to help make love accessible for people that may have never had the opportunity to experience it in its fullness. And so the last part of this is just that I think I'm just on a mission to enrich other people with my own personal experiences that I've had the pleasure to be able to work through and create, like, a blueprint for them so that they don't have to hide anymore.
Yvonne [00:58:28]:
Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. And I love that you said you had the pleasure to go through your experiences, all the experiences you shared. A lot of them don't sound pleasurable on the surface, but the pleasure that you got going through them, coming out the other end, honoring yourself, knowing your self worth, and figuring out what you need to experience love in its fullness.
Stefanie [00:58:54]:
Yeah. Because we all deserve it. I think it's one of the most amazing things that we can ever experience in life, and I think it starts with us. But to be able to share that with another human being and do life with them in such an intimate way, I think that that is like an opportunity of a lifetime.
Yvonne [00:59:16]:
Are you there? Oh, there you are. Okay.
Stefanie [00:59:18]:
Yeah.
Yvonne [00:59:18]:
You were just frozen for a second.
Stefanie [00:59:19]:
Yeah, no, I was just looking at you in a very, like. Yes, this is really what I believe in. I froze myself.
Yvonne [00:59:32]:
Let that settle in.
Stefanie [00:59:34]:
We need this to marinate for a little bit.
Yvonne [00:59:37]:
Yeah. Awesome. All right. As we start wrapping up for today, for women that find themselves maybe in this addiction with dating app, this on again, off again relationship, these unfulfilling experiences, what's one piece of advice that you have for them? Maybe somewhere they can start out. Take those first steps. What would you say to them?
Stefanie [01:00:05]:
Delete the dating apps cold turkey. It starts with a commitment to understanding that there's going to be a level of uncertainty in doing that and committing to sitting with that uncertainty, but also committing to wanting something different without knowing exactly what that will be, what it will look like, and how you'll get there. But the first step is delete those dating apps.
Yvonne [01:00:39]:
Yeah. Okay. It can be challenging to do that, but I like what you said. Making that commitment to yourself, stepping into the uncertainty. Yeah.
Stefanie [01:00:55]:
Because it's not going to be a pretty process. I'll just put it up there up front. Like you're going to go through withdrawals. Like, if you ever watch intervention and you see some of those people that are addicts and what their first few days in the detox facility, they're going through it. And just prepare yourself that you're going to go through that as well.
Yvonne [01:01:17]:
Wow, thank you.
Stefanie [01:01:19]:
That's great. Yeah.
Yvonne [01:01:21]:
And how can women get in touch with you if they want to know more about you? Work with you?
Stefanie [01:01:27]:
Yeah. I have an Instagram you can find me at Coachmesteff. It's c o a c h. Why did I just have trouble spelling coach me? And then Steph is s t e f. You can dm me. I also have a link in bio that you can just hit where it's just like, yeah, find the podcast. You can find a way to contact me. So just hit link in bio or Dm me.
Stefanie [01:01:52]:
It's easy.
Yvonne [01:01:54]:
Perfect. Okay. I'll make sure that I list those links in the show notes. Yeah.
Stefanie [01:01:58]:
Thank you.
Yvonne [01:01:59]:
Easy. Yeah. Okay.
Stefanie [01:02:01]:
And finally, before we go, what song.
Yvonne [01:02:04]:
Are you dancing to nowadays?
Stefanie [01:02:06]:
Oh, my gosh, I love cozy by Beyonce. I had the pleasure of going to her concert, and I am just such a big Beyonce fan. So whatever cozy comes on or. Yeah, that's the song right now.
Yvonne [01:02:22]:
Nice. Okay. I'll be sure to add that to the dating greatly playlist. I don't think I've heard that myself, so I'm going to listen to it. Yeah. Awesome. It was such a pleasure chatting with you. Is there anything that I haven't asked you yet? Is there anything that's burning, that you're burning to say or feeling?
Stefanie [01:02:43]:
No, not at all. I love where this conversation went. I just love that it went into the nooks and crannies of some of the places that maybe aren't that easy to talk about. But I hope other people can relate to this.
Yvonne [01:02:58]:
Yeah, I'm sure they would be able to. Again, as you were talking, there was so much coming up for me. So, yeah, I really appreciate you sharing everything you shared today about your experiences. Sometimes that's not easy to go back there to those places and those experiences. So thank you so much. And thank you so much for coming on today.
Stefanie [01:03:20]:
Oh, heck, yeah. Thank. It was really great to do this with you.
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