Ep 10- How To Have Great Sex With A New Partner | with Dr. Michele Waldron
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Welcome to Dating Greatly.
Today on the episode Dr. Michelle Waldron. Dr. Waldron is a licensed psychologist and a certified couples and sex therapist.
She's super passionate about helping people reduce their sexual shame and become their authentic sexual selves.
I hope you enjoyed listening to this conversation as much as I enjoyed recording it.
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Y: Well, thank you so much for being here with us today, Dr. Michelle. I'm super glad to have you here.
DR M: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Looking forward to our chat this morning.
Y: Yes, me too. Very excited. And, yeah, I'm super excited to ask you a lot of questions. I have a lot of questions for you, but we'll just see how much we cover today.
In your field of work being a sex therapist, what is the most common question that you get asked by women, specifically single women?
DR M: So a lot of the women that I see are struggling with arousal, orgasm, desire, or some experience pain, but no matter who they are, there's always questions about sex. Is this normal? Is that normal? Is this okay? I feel really bad that I'm thinking about this in this way. Should I not be thinking about this? Is it bad to think about this? I can't believe I've only had these experiences. So there tends to be, at least when people come to see me, a problem of some kind.
Y: It sounds like a lot of insecurity around those areas.
DR M: Very much so that's I think a good way to encompass it is that somewhere along their journey they have felt judged or ashamed or bad for some sexual feelings or experiencing pleasure.
A lot of the women I see will actually talk about how their journey, their childhood, their experiences in school or with family or other important communities to them gave them the message, not even explicitly, but that women aren't supposed to enjoy sex.
And even when I think about songs of my upbringing or movies and my upbringing, there was always this message that there was a woman you wouldn't want to bring home to your mom. And the perception of her is typically one that wears shorter skirts and shows some cleavage and gives the appearance that she likes sex.
And so while many women will say intellectually, I know it's okay, when it comes time to engage or feel pleasure, they have this feeling of guilt or shame or embarrassment.
Y: Yeah, that takes me back too. Just as you were talking about that the girl that you don't want to bring home to your family, it made me flash back to high school. And I remembered the way that we, I, as a woman would view other women that had sexual experiences or that were sexually active, was to call her a slut.
And then, of course, this is common knowledge, but on the other hand, you had the guys that were sexually active and they were players.
And I remember just bashing other women that were sexually active as that obviously, even for if I said that to someone else, like, oh, she's a slut because she's doing this, I'm also internalizing that message for myself.
So as I start to become more sexually active or exploring my sexuality, I'm labeling myself now as that.
DR M: Yeah, the slut shaming is a culture that many women grew up with. And while they might, as adults know that it doesn't make sense and it's okay to experience pleasure, there is this deep rooted, several year long message like you just described, where they internalize that it's bad.
And so sometimes that becomes a block or a break to truly being able to embrace yourself as a sexual being and to let go and really experience that pleasure. Because there's a little nagging part of you that says this is bad.
Y: Yes. The other thing, just personally that I grew up with, with this that diminishes my sexuality or just kept me from it, was this other belief that sexuality or having sex is more for the man, it's more to please, and it's less about me.
DR M: Yeah. And I think for men, that's also a problematic perspective too, is thinking that all men just want sex and that actually they're also supposed to know how to do it.
I see a lot of couples or women that have this belief because, again, the media portrays this image that men are just all knowing and that they just automatically will know how to please a woman. Well, they don't. And so they feel that pressure to be able to do that. And when they don't, it really hits them to their core when they're not able to feel like they can please a woman. Because in the back of their mind is this idea that they should know, like it's just supposed to be innate and they're just supposed to know that. And many of them are not on the prowl for women at all and also cringe at any sort of perspective that they are.
And also as a mother of boys, I have three boys, I cringe at that idea too, thinking that others might view my boys as being on the prowl for these young, innocent women.
And it's not fair for them. So we have both genders really dealing with these deep rooted assumptions and misbeliefs that they're coming to the relationship with. And that creates anxiety and insecurity and makes it hard for them to truly be their sexual selves as well as feel comfortable with communicating to the other person.
Y: Yeah, just so much pressure and insecurity on both sides. And then you have these two people that are coming together into the dating arena or into a relationship and no wonder people are scared.
DR M: Yeah, a lot of pressure.
Y: What would you say is the biggest key for men and women to come together into relationship and have a healthy relationship?
DR M: I would say communication and ultimately communicating about vulnerability. So many people don't think about the importance of communicating with a partner when it comes to sex, but it's essential.
I meet with people who tell me about I've had these many partners and my husband has had this many partners and here's where we are,
the reality is that it doesn't quite matter how many partners you've had, because every time you start with a new person, you're starting from scratch.
You have to learn what they like. Just because your last three partners really enjoyed a particular technique you did doesn't mean that your current one will. And maybe your last few partners guessed right in terms of what you really like, or maybe they did something new that was particularly pleasurable, but it doesn't mean your new partner will.
And so ultimately, when it comes to sex, it's our job to teach our partner what we like and also for us to be curious about what our partner likes. So that typically means that the first few times you have sex with somebody, it may not be that good, you might guess right, but if it's not good, that's okay because you're still understanding or trying to learn what the other one likes.
I think that is a major problem with couples is that they don't want to communicate. Because again, in the media or even in pornography, people don't communicate. It's just supposed to happen magically. They just know it's organic, it's fluid. And so many couples will often say, well, we aren't really clicking. It's not happening organically. It's supposed to just flow. And my thought is, who says it's supposed to?
Y: That's such a good point you bring up about there's no communication in just thinking about the movies. A few nights ago I watched The Notebook for the first time. Amazing movie, wonderful. And same thing, no one said a word and it's just flowing and whatever.
That's the thing with sex scenes. There is absolutely no communication. The couples aren't talking. The only thing you hear is like the panting and the breathing and the moaning. But there's zero communication.
So yeah, it's definitely not being modeled to us.
Before I'm going to pick your brain about how to get started on communicating that to a partner, for women that are just entering the dating arena and starting to meet people, and that might be very detached from knowing what they even like or their own desires.
Can we start there and kind of explore or help us understand how to kind of take those first steps as a woman, to start to know what we like? Before we start sharing that with a partner.
DR M: One of the best ways to learn that is through self pleasure. And so using your own hands, using toys or any other thing that feels pleasurable to you, understanding the ways to stimulate your vulva.
Your vulva is the collection of all of your lady parts, your clitoris, your labia, your vagina. And so finding ways to stimulate your vulva to see what it is that you do like.
Most women get pleasure through their clitoris. I just read an article yesterday that instead of 8000 wonderful sensitive parts to it, there's over 10,000. So isn't that wonderful?
Y: That's wonderful!
DR M: Also there is some thought that the clitoris, while it's a tiny little nub outside your body, actually has like two tentacles. Kind of reminds me of like with your teeth, right? With the roots of our teeth, they go down into our gums and we have all kinds of sensations because of that. Your clitoris is similar except they're much longer and they come right up next to your vaginal muscles.
And so this is why some women do experience pleasure, a good amount of pleasure through penetration, but not everybody does. So it's important to just know for yourself what works, what doesn't, how do you prefer your clitoris to be stimulated or do you prefer penetration and clitoral stimulation? What are the things that you like and you don't like?
Being able to communicate this, whether verbally or with sound or moving somebody's body part, whatever it may be, to let them know what feels good, what doesn't feel good. And so spending that time with yourself to have that curiosity think will help you be able to communicate more clearly.
It's a time I think for those that journal or meditate to kind of pair the two together to see what are some of those negative messages that we talked about earlier that could be coming up.
If you're feeling any blocks or negative emotions, to maybe afterwards lean into them a little and be curious and see what's coming up for you, because that could maybe get in the way of a good experience with a partner.
Y: My own journey with self pleasure, for the longest time I thought masturbation was for men, and I didn't think as a woman I got to participate. The way I viewed it, when men masturbated, it it was like, okay, an eye roll type thing.
I didn't start self pleasuring myself until probably my mid to end 20s. So very recently. Not that recently actually, let's not lie.
But it was a really interesting journey, and I'm at a point now where I've discovered that I can provide pleasure to myself. I can feel really good. And, just learning what feels good for me was really important.
DR M: Yeah, absolutely. And so
the only caveat I'd say is that if you are going to use sex toys, please know that there is nothing on a man's body that can replicate a sex toy.
And so you just want to make sure there's a lot of different ways to please yourself that he could replicate. There are some toys that come closer to it. Like, there's clitoral stimulators for suction rather than vibration. He could do that probably not as consistently or for as long as the toy can, but nonetheless, a little bit more so what a man's body can do, or fluttering or multiple sources of penetration.
I met with a client recently who is dating and has some kinks, but she was saying how the guys that she's hooked up with the sex wasn't very good. And so we ended up talking about, well, when she goes on the date, she'll bring a condom and her favorite clitoral stimulator toy. That way she knows no matter what, she will feel pleasure. She can let him use it on her. That's easy enough to teach him to do because she was feeling like she wasn't leaving sexual experiences as satisfied as she would have liked.
And so part of that is just her advocating for her pleasure by bringing her favorite toy with her. So small enough to fit in your purse, ladies. Nothing too crazy, right? And a condom or two. If that's where you go with the night, then that's okay. Really knowing to advocate for your pleasure.
Y: I spoke to a woman recently who we were talking about self pleasure, and she said, self pleasure with my hand has never worked for me. She uses toys. But as we were talking, it turned out that she said, I don't have the patience for my hand. I'm just wondering, what do you think about that? Not exploring yourself with your hand and just using toys is yeah. Is there anything that your thoughts around that at all?
DR M: Yeah, I mean, it might be that that's what she's learned about herself. It's good to know where all of your parts are. What are your labia, where's your clitoris, where do you urinate? Because it's in a different place. It's not your vagina. I've had some women think that.
To know what the inside of your vagina feels like even if you're not experiencing pleasure from it per se, but just to kind of know it's a part of you. What does this feel like?
At the same time, if her hand can't do what a toy does and maybe the toy is just more efficient, that's okay for sure. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If she knows what she likes, she knows what she likes and just being mindful of over reliance on a toy because again, other people may not be able to stimulate the same thing and so that might limit her pleasure. So you don't want that to become a source of frustration.
Sometimes I might recommend decreasing the vibration toys a little bit and trying to find other ways or other toys that do have things that people could replicate. Otherwise it might be super frustrating. That said, you could also use a toy during sex, so maybe
finding a toy that isn't too cumbersome, like usually long thin clitoral stimulators are great when you're in the middle of having sex can easily reach your clitoris while being penetrated.
Y: Okay, good tips there. I've never used a toy. There was always something. Yeah, I don't know, I think I'm the opposite where I don't know, it scares me a little bit.
DR M: Might be something to try again on your own. So you could use a toy that penetrates as well as stimulates at the same time and see how that feels for yourself before you decide. They make clitorial ticklers that also vibrate too. So you can try different things. But many say that having the multiple source orgasm is pretty good.
Y: Okay.
DR M: Then again, everyone is different, right? There's lots of different orgasms you can get and you do what works for you.
Y: Yeah, well, that sounds pretty nice. Multi source orgasms sound nice and interesting.
For women that don't have a relationship yet with their vulva or they're a little bit apprehensive to start self pleasure in the vulva area. Is there any other ways that women can start to self pleasure that doesn't involve the vulva?
DR M: Sure. So I think any kind of mindful touching of your body could be breast, nipples, face, anywhere else that feels pleasurable and do it as a mindful meditation just to be with your body, to focus on the sensations that you're providing to it, maybe express some gratitude or appreciation or just sit and enjoy the sensations.
At some point when and if ready, you can switch to your vulva, but otherwise there's still plenty of stimulation and enjoyment you can get out of touching other parts of your body. Touch can be quite powerful.
When I'm working with people individually, I usually have them go through the exercise of touching their body but not their genitals first, just to kind of see what that experience is like for them. But often many powerful emotions come up that they weren't expecting with trauma.
For people who've experienced that, there is an idea that in a book, actually, The Body Keeps the Score, that
your body holds a lot of memories. And so sometimes when you're doing touch, it can unlock something. And so if that happens again, it's an opportunity to journal and lean into it and reflect.
And then when you're ready, keep moving on. But it's also okay to sit there and be curious because it's an opportunity to get to know yourself in a different way.
Y: What do you think women get wrong when it comes to having sex?
DR M: I think being unaware of the biases and assumptions they may have for themselves and potential partners, including not willing to communicate their needs or having the assumption that he is supposed to know. Or as you said earlier, that sex is mostly for men rather than for themselves.
And so being able to know ahead of time what feels good, what you're okay with, what you're not okay with. So having some boundaries about, for instance, are you okay with a one night stand or a casual relationship? What are you looking for?
Y: I was just going to ask you about the one night stand thing, what are your thoughts about one night stands? Like, if you're going to have a one night stand, should there be some prerequisites? And I'm thinking more emotionally, what do you think about that?
DR M: Yeah, so knowing what your boundaries are ahead of time and perhaps you go on a date with somebody that you're attracted to, that you're having a lot of fun with. But perhaps there are just some things that, you know, don't line up for a long term monogamous relationship if that's what you're looking for.
And so if you're someone that is open to a one night stand and the other person is being prepared to talk about that with that person and just knowing for yourself ahead of time. So be prepared with condoms or that toys we talked about already to go and where are you feeling comfortable with having it, for instance? And just I think of safety issues if you're meeting up with a stranger and you want to have a one night stand, totally fine, consenting adults, but
just making sure that somebody else knows who you're with, where you are, thinking about where you would do it and feel safe. Like, would you want to have the person over your house? Would you want to go to their house? Would you prefer to get a hotel room? Then how do you feel about your level of sobriety?
Y: Yes, that's a great point.
DR M: That certainly impacts consent. Yeah. So I would say for one night stands, know ahead of time your thoughts and feelings about one night stands. And if you're okay with it, considering your safety plan, which is where do you feel comfortable having it, letting somebody know who you're with, just in case, bringing a condom and maybe a toy, so that way you have a sense as to how you can be safe and how you can advocate for your pleasure.
And then, of course, knowing your drink limit so you know at what point you can and can't consent.
Y: Yes. And when we communicate with our partners, whether that's in a one night stand or once we've met a person that we feel safe with, to engage in sex again, it's about keeping ourselves safe and comfortable.
As women, we open ourselves to someone else. And that can be in the physical, but the physical can only open when you open yourself mentally and spiritually.
And I think you can only do that if there's a foundation of safety and comfort. If that's not there, how are you able to be relaxed enough to open?
DR M: Yeah, exactly.
Y: So then, as we were talking about before communicating as a woman to our partner, to our sexual partner, what could that sound like and look like if maybe we don't really know yet.
It's happening in the act and we're noticing, oh, we don't like something, or something feels good. What are some ways we could communicate that?
DR M: Starting with if something doesn't feel good, you can say Stop. You could move their hand or their body part, or say, can you move over this way? Or you could shift yourself in a different way in hopes that that will make the experience a little bit better. You can suggest maybe a different position or a different behavior so it doesn't have to be as explicit as stop doing that.
Whereas if you're feeling pleasure, you can give some words of affirmation like, that feels good. Or you could moan or you could rub something on their body again, just as a way of letting them know. Like, this is really great.
So I think positive feedback is just as important because when we think about it, it's good to know what we're doing right and to keep doing not just what's going wrong.
Y: Yes. Because I know you work with men as well for this. If a woman communicates what she doesn't like or she does like, how does the man experience that?
DR M: With extreme appreciation. I think many men have expressed that they want to know, right? Their goal is to please their partner. And for many people, men or women, they feel more aroused when their partner is clearly enjoying themselves, right? When you're able to give someone pleasure, for many, that is arousing too.
And so I think for men, they want to know because they will often get aroused by seeing the woman aroused. So if there is a way to do it, they want to learn, they want to be taught.
But then we're kind of getting back to this whole idea of like they should just know. They don't. They want to know. So definitely go into it ready to teach and ready to ask to learn, because it goes both ways. You also need to learn what works for them and hopefully that's arousing to you to some degree.
But certainly at any point, if they're asking you to do something that you don't really like that is not comfortable for you, say no, it's okay to say no. Say no, it's not my thing. Or you can give it a try. And maybe it's not arousing, but it's not hurtful to you or harmful for you, but you know, it pleases them. So you do it for a little bit.
It's up to you what you're okay with and not okay with. So that also might be something to consider ahead of time, is what sorts of behaviors are you okay with? Do you really like what's arousing? What are some things maybe you're curious about where if you had the opportunity, you'd try and then are there things that are definite, non negotiable, big no's for you, and being comfortable and confident to advocate for that?
Y: Yes, I think that's the key, especially with the kind of insecurity and uncertainty a lot of women have, especially with new relationships. That is the biggest challenge. Advocating for yourself, using your voice to advocate for your own needs, which a lot of women in my world have been kind of removed from their needs.
DR M: Yeah, it is hard to do. The more you have a sense as to what they are and who you are and who you want, the easier it is to communicate. But knowing that things aren't always that clear. So having an initial idea and then moment to moment, maybe making a decision about how something feels and speaking up.
Y: So you mentioned Kinks earlier, so let's talk about that. I would love for you to tell us a little bit more about that.
What comes to my mind is if I have a fantasy or something that I want to try, but maybe it's a little bit embarrassing, how do you bring that up? How do you know the other person is into that as well, or what they're into? How do you start that conversation?
DR M: Sure. So there are dating apps specifically for people with different kinks where you can include your kinks as part of your profile, your kink interests. So that I think is ideal depending on what that is. That said, if it's not something that's so specific you have it on a dating profile.
I think it makes sense to talk to partners about their likes and their dislikes and ultimately we're not going to meet someone that shares the exact same sexual interest. Kinks are something that for some people are like an additional sexual fantasy that they get aroused to.
We all are aroused to many different things, many different potentially types of people doing different behaviors, which is 100% normal.
And there are sexual fantasies that we even may really enjoy as a sexual fantasy but have absolutely no interest in acting out in real life. And there are some things that we do want to act out in real life.
And there are maybe sexual behaviors which can include kinks that might be something that we have to have as part of our arousal menu in order to be able to orgasm. So everyone's a little different. So for some kinks are things that are bonus menu items, for others kinks might be a requirement.
Y: Can you give us some examples of kinks? In general women might think like oh my God, this thing I have and this fantasy like no one else has it, I'm a freak. So I would love to hear what some, common and maybe not so common kinks are.
DR M: So there is a study by Justin Ley Miller about sexual fantasies and it was done with over 4000 people, pretty much the largest one ever. And ages were 18 to 87, which is a great range.
So the top fantasy that people reported was multi partner sex was the most common. So three sums being particularly common thing for people to fantasize about.
The second one was power control, rough sex. So various BDSM type activities and that included fantasies about sex being forced on somebody again when there is consent. So you're consenting to that role play of sex being forced on you to be act out.
And then the third one was novelty adventure variety. So engaging in a behavior you haven't done before.
One common one was sex in unique settings or varying locations or having these unexpected, surprising or thrilling encounters. So having the cable guy come to your door and come fix the cable and then it turns into this unexpected sort of fling, right? That would be one idea.
And so the novelty fantasies I think are kind of based on the idea that if we have the same kind of sexual behavior all the time, we get bored of it. So I kind of think of it like food. If we ate the same thing. Every day. That would get pretty boring. We need a variety and so sexual fantasies and behaviors are the same. We don't want to do necessarily the same thing. We want a variety.
And actually the number four sexual fantasies was things that were viewed as taboo or forbidden, even disgusting by some people. The most common one was voyeurism.
So voyeurism being like peeking in somebody's windows and seeing them having sex or undressed or something like that.
And believe it or not, number five was passion, romance, and intimacy.
Y: Oh, wow. Well, it's a fantasy for many people, right?
DR M: Well, it's the fifth on the list. I like sharing that study because I think it can validate for many fantasies that they might have some self judgment about.
Y: Yeah, definitely. And I'm glad you shared that. I saw myself or heard myself in one or two of those as well. So it's neat that there's many people that have these types of fantasies. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you.
DR M: Absolutely. And maybe you're somebody that would want to explore some. That's okay.
Whether it be through your self pleasure experience or with a partner that you're feeling safe and comfortable with and can have that conversation of, gosh, I've wanted to try this. How do you feel about that? Or even talking about some of your sexual fantasies that each of you have that requires safety.
Y: Exactly what I was just going to say. It comes back to safety, like feeling safe and comfortable within yourself, but also with your partner. So again, the big open communication and that's been the key in our whole conversation is this openness and willingness to communicate clearly also with yourself, like discovering your own needs and wants and then communicating that to the other person. And once you have the safety is when you can explore a deeper level of intimacy, a more rewarding and nourishing level of intimacy for sure.
DR M: Yeah.
Y: So much to explore from our conversation and a lot of out of the box thinking as well for me as well, like where can I improve my communication and where can I get more clear on my own needs and wants? So anyway, lots for me to work on as well. So thank you.
Before we go, I do want to ask you if you could give women only one piece of advice today. What would that piece of advice be?
DR M: Spend some time with yourself, exploring to ensure that you have a good idea about your wants, your needs, your boundaries, so that way you can communicate it to others.
Y: Beautiful.
DR M: Communication is key. I think you just reiterated that your voice is important.
Y: Final question before we go, on a lighter note. I mean, this is all light. I don't know what I just said on a lighter note because it is all like moving towards the light for anyone who's still a little in the dark.
What's your favorite music to dance to? Right now?
DR M: Well, I'd say it depends. It's either techno and dance, if I'm so inclined, or I really like 90s hair bands.
Y: That's awesome. I don't know which one I expected less for you to say. Both of them are surprising. That's awesome.
And Dr. Michelle, where can women go to find out more about you and work with you?
DR M: So my practice is Sexual Health and Healing. The website is sexualhealthandhealing.org. We are on Instagram and Facebook. And then I just started a Facebook group called Pain Free Pleasure around women with sexual pain.
Y: Okay, awesome. I will make sure to link those in the podcast notes as well.
Thank you so much, Dr. Michelle, for coming on here today and sharing such juicy, interesting, fascinating information and just giving all of us just so much to explore and think about. Thank you.
DR M: You are so welcome. Thank you for having me, and I look forward to hearing it.
Y: You're so interesting.
DR M: I'm so glad.
LINKS
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