Ep 16- How Porn Can Ruin Your Relationship (And What To Do About It) | Walter Perez
Welcome to Dating Greatly.
On today’s episode I chat with Walter Perez, the CEO of The Leader Co and Community Host for Restored Ministries.
Walter shares his personal journey of how his porn addiction lead to a loss of self and the crumbling of his marriage. He sheds light on the hidden struggles and the detrimental effects a porn habit can have on a man's identity.
Join us as we delve deep into the taboo topic of pornography in relationships and the need for open communication. Walter encourages individuals, particularly women, to confidently express their boundaries and prioritize their own well-being.
Enjoy today’s episode and please share it with the men and women in your life!
Yvonne [00:00:00]:
Well, Walter, thank you so much for being here with me today and for coming on the show. I'm super excited to chat with you today.
Walter [00:00:32]:
Well, thank you for having me. I've been excited ever since we chatted and you invited me on. So, yeah, thank you for having me on.
Yvonne [00:00:40]:
Yes. And I just want to point out, too, that you're joining me on your birthday, so I feel very honored, and I just want to say happy birthday. And yeah, I'm just super thrilled that you're here.
Walter [00:00:53]:
Well, thank you. And let me tell you that this is a treat for me. So I wanted to be here, and this is such a great way to spend part of my morning on my birthday, so I wanted to let you know.
Yvonne [00:01:03]:
That awesome. Thank you. And actually, on that, I wanted to ask you, too, with your birthday and the next year kind of coming up for you, what are you excited about that's coming up in the next year for you?
Walter [00:01:17]:
Yeah, you know what? I'm one of those guys that like a new year's. Not that I necessarily do New Year's resolutions because I always believe that I want to continue to grow, and of course, I set goals because I'm a vision guy, and my birthday is a unique time, too. I love to reflect and think about what went well and what didn't go so well and what can I do better. And I like to pick a word, typically on New Year's, but this year it's been the word courageous. I wanted to be courageous, try new things, and I'm excited, I think, being on this podcast today, for example, and just seeing how there's opportunities out there to impact the world. And I just am excited to continue to step into my potential, though I'm not very clear on where this is going this year. I'm excited to just continue to step into it and live in the moment to say, okay, this is what I'm going to do, and I'm going to take chances. I'm going to take risk.
Walter [00:02:10]:
Courageous risk.
Yvonne [00:02:12]:
Yes. I love that. Yes. And I definitely identify with that, too. That word courage has been coming up more and, yeah, just doing things that might be a little bit scary, but that are also really exciting. It sounds amazing. Okay, well, we are here to talk all things porn today, or at least how it can affect people, especially men, relationships, dating and all that. So as you're talking about stepping into your highest potential, I want to ask you how, as you're going to talk about your story and your experience when you were in the depths of a porn addiction.
Yvonne [00:03:05]:
How was that? Were you stepping into your full potential? And if you can kind of explore.
Walter [00:03:11]:
That a little bit, yeah, I sure can. Well, that's a very great way to ask that question, Yvonne, because what I have discovered is that when I was in a stage in my life where I was watching pornography and I was stuck in it, and we can call it an addiction, I definitely was not living on my potential. In fact, it's crazy to then look back and go, wow, the time, in some cases, money, the energy that was spent in that, it was no good for me. Because you'll be divided, right. Instead of focusing on your purpose, your dreams, your vision, the things that you feel like you're being called to do, that's distracting you, it's taking time away from you. And so as I reflect on that, it was keeping me almost captive.
Yvonne [00:04:09]:
Yeah. So you realizing that it wasn't good for you consuming porn. When did that come about? When did you realize that it wasn't good?
Walter [00:04:21]:
I probably got exposed to pornography at a young age. And I was trying to think, I mean, what would have been maybe that number, that magical age number, and I think it was around the age of twelve. And I probably got exposed a little bit before that. The thing about that is that I grew up in a home where we did not talk about sex. Like, there was no sex education conversation between me and my parents. So, of course, as a young boy, you end up being exposed to pornography. Your friends show it to you, you find a magazine here or there. And that became my sex ed.
Walter [00:04:55]:
And what ends up happening is I ended up growing up with that, these visuals, these images, to an extent, throughout my life, this need to think that I needed to go back to it. It went through my whole life. And I, by the way, lived in this state thinking that it wasn't a problem. I didn't know it was a problem. I thought, I can stop whenever I want. And I did have phases throughout my life, seasons, where I was like, no, I'm not looking at that. It doesn't make me feel good. I don't want to do that.
Walter [00:05:24]:
But the reality is that I didn't really go to the root of it. And so I continued watching it into my young adult age. I had dating relationships that I never brought it up. They never asked, I'm not going to bring it up, right? Like, we're not going to talk about it. She doesn't know, she doesn't need to know. And then to the point of even bringing it into my marriage, and we never discussed it then either. And as I had shared with you before, this ended up leading into an area of my life where I ended up seeking more. And I ended up actually having what we call an emotional affair, where I ended up having conversations with another girl, texting flirting that connection in that sense, which was obviously not good for my marriage.
Walter [00:06:10]:
And when that came out, it started with my wife healing, that I had been watching pornography, that I had been talking to this other woman and that was not good for us. And that became a healing journey of first myself realizing that I needed some help and I needed to take control of this. And then of course, my wife on her side, she realized that she needed to get some help because she was on the other side of this. Some verbiage that is used around this is like betrayal, trauma, and she needed some healing on her end as well as I needed that. And that began the journey of healing. Okay, this is no good.
Yvonne [00:06:53]:
Wow, thank you for sharing all that. And I realize this is a subject that is often taboo, like you were talking about growing up and in relationships often that isn't talked about. So I really appreciate you sharing your journey about it and the vulnerabilities around it as well. I really appreciate you having the courage to open up and yeah, I just want to go back to what you mentioned about how you grew up with yeah, with kind of porn around you. It just made me think of as a woman too. I got exposed to, I guess porn, I don't know at what age, but with the internet and whatever, all of a sudden I remember seeing images and I remember it feeling really like the initial images, feeling just so disturbed by them because you're a kid. So thinking back on it, I don't know if I was twelve or 13 or something, and then these first images popping up and like, oh my God, what is this? And also, like you said, magazines. I remember, I think I was eleven or twelve and we owned a campground as a family and the campers had left some stuff like in the garbage and they were pornography magazines and I found them and it was just curiosity, so I was looking through them and it was all women in sexual poses, pornographic poses.
Yvonne [00:08:34]:
I was just curious and I wanted to look at it, but I knew it was wrong. So I remember hiding this magazine under my shirt and trying to go in the house with it, like to go to my room to look at it. And I remember my mom was like, what's under your shirt? And I was like and I knew it was bad and she saw it and she was very distraught and angry and ripped it out of my hand and don't look at that. So there was like that kind of shame right from the beginning, like that this is wrong. And seeing that effect on my mother. I don't know, it kind of all ties in into kind of how from I'm not sure if all my thoughts are going to articulate right now, but yeah, it was just kind of my perspective of being exposed to that for the first time.
Walter [00:09:26]:
Well, what's challenging, Yvonne, and I think I'm tracking with you here, you end up looking at something and I have a similar story too, where I remember finding a magazine because I was helping an uncle clean a storage room. And curiosity, that's where it begins. There is this element of we're sincere, we're innocent, but we want to know. But the problem is that we don't get taught how to view that. We feel that it's wrong, we feel the shame, but we don't understand why. And so there is a mix of emotions that come into our life to going, well, I'm not supposed to, but I kind of enjoyed that. If you're not as a child, as a kid, you need help to sort those types of emotions out. And if you don't know how, well, you might just go back to this feeling that gave you this high feeling.
Walter [00:10:21]:
Well, that felt good.
Yvonne [00:10:22]:
Yeah, that was exciting. That was like.
Walter [00:10:27]:
Right. It's almost like we like this little this risk factor. Right. And we go, well, but it was a good feeling and I want to feel that again. And as you and I know that there's a lot of other things, healthy things in our life that will give us those feelings, but if we don't know better, that's the way to do it. Right?
Yvonne [00:10:49]:
Yeah. And I think being curious, especially at a young age about sexuality and all that, as our bodies are changing, of course it's very natural and it's good to be curious about sexuality and how it works. But then, yeah, if you're left alone without proper communication, then all of a sudden, at least for me, I was like, is this the role a woman plays? Is this what I'm supposed to do?
Walter [00:11:17]:
Right?
Yvonne [00:11:18]:
Because there wasn't like that open. We had sex ed in school, but what was that? It was like, this is how a woman's body works. This is maybe how a man's body works. And then you come together and you should wear condoms or abstain. But we just weren't supported in that way. So you start to get a skewed image. So I'm wondering what impression or what image did you have of once you saw your first pornography images? How did that affect your view of sex, relationships, women, men?
Walter [00:11:57]:
Oh, my goodness. Okay, so I'll back up just a little bit because as you're talking about childhood experiences, of course I was curious to go and watch it and to kind of see what it was all about. But actually one of the things that got me to run to porn was pain. I grew up in a house that maybe now it's more common but I had a stepdad that I had a very unhealthy relationship and because of that I had pain growing up that I didn't know what to do with and so I would go and run to pornography but this is the thing. So at first glance pornography became a painkiller for me because I wanted to isolate myself. I was better when I was on my own and I felt better and watching this stuff. But then of course it creates these images that you think you understand what sex is. Unfortunately you end up objectifying women a little bit because you think they are there to meet my need of getting off and so bad way to start, right? And the other thing is that it ends up creating this dependency on pornography, feeling like I actually don't need to learn how to handle my pain, I don't need to learn how to handle my loneliness, or I don't need to figure out healthy ways to work through it.
Walter [00:13:30]:
Because when I go to porn, it gives me this sense of control. I controlled my pain by watching this and then it creates this idea that hey, whenever I'm feeling broken or whatever I'm going to run to that and I'm going to feel better. But the problem is that it's only temporary, right? And so that's where the cycle begins and you continue to do it more and more and what gets you into trouble.
Yvonne [00:13:55]:
Yeah and that's where the word addiction kind of comes in because as you're saying this it's like you were in pain and this would help you feel better and not feel the pain and not have to deal with it. And so often addictions can take so many forms, alcohol, drugs but it can also be like pornography, it can be shopping, it can be eating, it can be so many things. The goal being to get away from the pain and feel some kind of high, some kind of really pleasant emotion. And I mean, as you're really watching pornography and getting off, what is more pleasurable than that? So of course why wouldn't we choose that rather than why would I look at the pain when this feels so good?
Walter [00:14:45]:
And it's crazy because when we're talking about the word addiction, right, and this habitual thing that takes place you end up and I've heard stories as well and I think I've been there too is where you end up even going to the point where now you're just doing it because it's out of habit. So it's not even because I'm running to deal with pain or I'm running because I had a bad day at some points it's just like this is just what I do, this is where I go, this is what I watch. And I remember catching myself a few times going like what in the world am I doing? I'm like I'm feeling okay but here I'm watching it because this is what I do. It's crazy. It's crazy. And to your point here too, you're comparing it to other addictions. I think pornography is such a dangerous one because check this out. If you're an alcoholic, if you're addicted to drugs of some sort, like cocaine, crack, whatever it is those typically have, they show out physically.
Walter [00:15:46]:
You can tell when somebody's high, you can tell when somebody's drunk. And I know that there's other addictions. I wouldn't show that. But the majority out there have this outward expression of that addiction. Pornography, on the other hand, doesn't. You could be stuck in pornography for years that nobody would ever know.
Yvonne [00:16:06]:
Yeah.
Walter [00:16:07]:
I mean, eventually there's consequences, of course, for everything if you do it long enough and it will come out. But from what I have seen, majority men, women can watch this for a long time and you would never know, which is scary. And that's why it's become a bit of a taboo topic. We don't talk about it, so we don't know the effects of it, really.
Yvonne [00:16:28]:
Yeah. And then because you just can't tell, there's also such isolation with it because no one would ask you, hey, do you need some help? Or hey, is there something going on? It just doesn't have those exterior signs, so it just sounds very like it's very isolating, very just you and the screen.
Walter [00:16:53]:
And I like to think of it sometimes too. It's like a Band Aid to whatever other rooted issues you might have. And we all got our own challenges, but the problem is that porn prevents you from actually going in deeper and maybe discovering how to deal with that.
Yvonne [00:17:11]:
Did you always find the shame associated with watching porn? Or I'm also wondering at what point did you notice I think there's a few questions here. So I'm wondering maybe how the shame evolved for you and also how your maybe watching habits did you notice consciously of the watching habits shifting?
Walter [00:17:34]:
Oh, man. Yeah. I think what happens is there's a little bit of shame and guilt involved, right. Because, you know, so when you get stuck in pornography, it makes you want to be secretive. In fact, there's three words that were coming to mind as I was thinking about this. It makes you lie, cheat, and steal. When you think about it, that never feels good. You know that stealing is wrong.
Walter [00:18:09]:
And what I mean by that is it's stealing your time. It's stealing money. It's healing from your relationship or from having intentional time with your wife or your kids. It steals that that was actually a big, like, whoa. That's what it actually does to me. It can open the door to cheating. When you think about the line that will go into that sometimes, because you want to make time to watch pornography. So you know that, hey, maybe if I'm mad at my wife or if I'm angry, that will give us separation time.
Walter [00:18:44]:
And that gives me excuse to then go watch porn because I'm mad or I'm hurt by what she said. So now I have the right to go look at this, right?
Yvonne [00:18:53]:
Right.
Walter [00:18:54]:
But then you know that that's not the right way to handle it. And so shame comes in. The problem with that is that you now feel broken and kind of hurt and how are you going to deal? There's a cycle that ends up happening. So how do you deal with the shame is that, well, if I can go feel this high, I'll feel better. But then the shame comes again and you get stuck in this routine of unhealthiness. Shame plays a huge part when you don't realize that you have to break that. And it does a thing on your self image. Of course it does things to other people with relationships, but on you, you could end up feeling like, I'm trashy, I feel gross.
Walter [00:19:42]:
And it only adds on to this if you don't know how to handle it. And so I think shame is a big factor and it's dangerous if you don't know how to deal with that because it'll keep you stuck.
Yvonne [00:19:55]:
Yeah, for sure.
Walter [00:19:58]:
Yeah. It's a scary thing to get caught up in that if you don't seek help. And especially because pornography likes to isolate you, you think, well, if I tell the world, if I tell my best friend, or if I tell somebody else, they're going to think I'm the worst human being and they're going to judge me and they're going to think that I'm just a horrible human being. So I'm not going to talk about it. Because you already feel the weight of this where you're at. Why would you want to add more? Right?
Yvonne [00:20:28]:
Yes, for sure. And so at what point maybe if you could tell me a little bit about how you were maybe dating and getting into the relationship, especially with your wife, did you go through phases or was it always there? Like this habit was always there. And at what point did it start to affect your relationship and in what way?
Walter [00:20:58]:
It's a scary thing or interesting thing to think about because when we dated, we never talked about it. And so I probably can think about there were phases where I would go good without ever being tempted by it, looking at it, and then there were times that I would go into it. And so I'm a man, I got control of this. I don't need help, so I don't need to talk about it because I can go weeks or months without it. But then something happens and you come across a magazine or something in the wrong click and you get pulled into it. Right?
Yvonne [00:21:33]:
Yeah.
Walter [00:21:33]:
So even in going into our marriage, we never talked about it. And I think it's fair to say that my wife might have assumed that she probably knew that I may have watched it, but she didn't think I had a problem with it. And so the lack of communication caused us to go years without ever talking about this. And it wasn't until years later when this all came out and she realized that, hey, you're talking to this other girl, and you're actually watching this stuff as well, is when I was not eased into it. We went bang on, and we had to deal with it and realize, okay, but if I back up for a little bit, I think I totally did affect our marriage in some way. So, you know, for example, we're talking about shame. I remember watching this stuff and feeling like, I feel a little dirty. I feel shameful.
Walter [00:22:33]:
I don't want to watch this. And I remember one specific time where I was with my wife and after making love, and I felt shameful, and it was like, whoa, wait a minute. My body's connecting to me over here, watching this where I belong in the bedroom. I'm feeling shameful about that. Whoa, wait a minute. I knew that did not make sense.
Yvonne [00:22:57]:
Yeah.
Walter [00:23:00]:
That actually opened up my eyes to realizing, okay, this feels gross. Now it's creeping into my marriage, and she doesn't even realize it. Yeah, we hadn't talked about it. Now, I told her later on when we did start talking about that, but it was crazy to me to realize that that's how it creeps in there. And then, you know what? I'm feeling disconnected to my wife, or I'm feeling like, hey, actually, I saw this thing happened over here, and why can't this happen in the bedroom? And you end up having these unrealistic expectations, which is not healthy, especially as you look into the porn industry and you realize these are actors that are putting these scenes together. And the deeper you go into there, it's fake. It's all set up. It's not designed to duplicate what happens in the bedroom.
Walter [00:23:54]:
It's not realistic of what you see in these videos and pictures. And so that's the first thing that really messes with you, because you start going, well, that's how they do it. So that's how I need to perform. That's how my wife needs to perform. And women will have that expectation, thinking, oh, wow, that's what a woman should look like or sound like. So I need to do that too.
Yvonne [00:24:15]:
Exactly. And it's so unrealistic, even from just the obvious, the high pitched breathing or whatever. I said this before on another episode, but it actually mimics the fear response. It mimics anxiety, this high pitched breathing. So in reality, when you're actually enjoying pleasure, it's actually lower and way more relaxed and deep and exhales. So even that and then as women, we're like, oh, we're supposed to do that. So we end up putting ourselves into this anxious state. And then also this zero communication in any kind of porn.
Yvonne [00:24:59]:
It's completely unrealistic. And then, of course, the body image for women. Is that what we're supposed to be doing? Okay, am I meant to just please the man? Where is my own pleasure in this? That doesn't even exist in the realm. Also, what you were saying that was so powerful when you talked about feeling shame after making love with your wife and just thinking about the power of energy when we make love and how we're connected. And as a man, feeling shame. Also how that energy would have affected your wife. Probably feeling the same, ashamed of herself because the energies are so powerful when we're together like that.
Walter [00:25:45]:
And you think about this, Yvonne, sometimes couples will go through some challenges in the relationship and you go, well, I don't know what it is. There's something there, but we're trying to figure it out. Or there was know he had a bad day or I was tired, or whatever it is. Right. And sometimes it actually goes deeper than that. In this scenario that we're talking about, it could be pornography because the things that it's doing to you emotionally and mentally and physically, you may not be able to pinpoint it, but it actually is creating a wedge between you and your partner.
Yvonne [00:26:17]:
Yeah, right now I'm thinking ahead of like, how do you undo that? How do you ever get out of that? And how did it start for you? Because that's such deep rooted stuff. And how do you go from that to a healthy, connected way of being?
Walter [00:26:47]:
Yeah, well, it's a tough one because you have to understand that there's some rooted things in your life that pornography is not a surface thing. Pornography might be covering other challenges, or we can call them issues or problems that you've had in your life that might even stem, might even go as far back as to your childhood. Some might be in the immediate, like something that happened a year ago or whatever. But it's understanding that there's rooted things. And porn likes to mask that. Porn likes to cover that up and make it seem like there's nothing wrong there. And so first, I think understanding self awareness that there is. As you know, Ivan, part of what I do is leadership coaching and leadership training because I love people to understand that leadership is important wherever you are at that everybody's called to be a leader.
Walter [00:27:45]:
But one of the first things that you need to discover is that you self leadership is that how to lead yourself? And that is self awareness sometimes and having some core values behind what you want out of your life. So you want to snip this out of your life. That was one of the things realizing, no, this has caused so much brokenness that I need to snip this out of my life, and it can't be part of my life in any shape or form. I work with restored ministries as well, and I'm one of the community hosts on there and I'll talk more about it a bit. But we're a ministry and my faith has played a humongous role. And so I got to give credit where credit is due, Yvonne, because my relationship, my personal relationship with Jesus, which is what I believe has been a huge factor. And the reason I say that is because I've Restored Ministries, one of the things that we want to help men understand is their identity. Pornography steals your identity because you think that is your identity.
Walter [00:28:45]:
The shame that you feel is your identity. The brokenness, the idea that you need to run to it, that that is what sustains you, becomes your identity. And we want to break that off. And we believe that you finding your identity in Christ is where you start first feeling the healing. Because I think our souls crave something. Whether you're talking about spirituality, whether there's God, you crave something and the things that are rooted, it's almost like you're trying to look for meaning. And so when you run to pornography, you think that that is filling these voids that you have. But the reality is that we crave intimacy.
Walter [00:29:29]:
We crave when in Restored Ministries, when we help guys and guide them to saying, okay, let's get yourself centered in what your relationship with Christ looks like. Matt Klein, the founder of Restored Ministries, likes to say something that I think I love when he says this and he says, you were created on purpose for a purpose. And I love that because when you understand that, you go, oh my goodness, there's so much more to life than me being stuck and watching pornography. And so my faith has played a huge role in understanding that healing because I had a lot of shame and brokenness behind that. And then realizing actually, you know what the thing that pornography projects on me and what it tells me that I am, that because I hurt my wife, I'm a piece of crap because I've been stuck in this addiction and I am the addiction because I failed, I am failure. No, that's not it. It was a thing, an act. There was an addiction aspect to it.
Walter [00:30:32]:
But there's also I can break free from that. And I'm not that person who I am today. So my story today, and this has come a long way, I used to identify with that and be like, well, that's who I am. I wouldn't want to talk to you about this because I was associating all this brokenness and shame to the crappy individual that I was. But today I would love to tell you that my story is God's grace story. I am now on the other side of it telling you that there is healing. I want to tell you there is healing even though there is an addiction. There's a science to that.
Walter [00:31:11]:
There's ways to reverse that. There is things that you can do. To actually break free from this. And that doesn't have to be your yeah.
Yvonne [00:31:20]:
Oh, that's powerful.
Walter [00:31:22]:
Yeah. It gets me fired up because I'm an example, but I get to see hundreds of men in restored ministries that have come with similar stories, and I'm seeing them break free from that. And marriages are being restored. Yvonne that has to speak for itself. And when men realize, like, wow, I feel like my purpose is to start a business. My purpose is to help other men. That idea that I had was keep I never did it because I was so distracted. I spent money I spent money on escorts or massage parlors or whatever, and that stole.
Walter [00:32:02]:
But now people are getting their life together and going, actually, I can focus on what I feel that I'm being called to do. Right.
Yvonne [00:32:10]:
Yes. That's beautiful. And I keep seeing this image of a man, too, and masculinity, and when you look at porn on the surface, oh, it's like, I don't know, this alpha dump, testosterone, maybe we're made to believe, like, well, that is masculinity or something like that. But it really isn't. It's just like a weakening of the essence of a man, because what you said, you were lacking purpose, you were lacking meaning, and a man needs that. That's what his life is driven by, purpose. And I think even more so than a woman. So it was like, yeah, I can really see the power of releasing those shackles of that kind of a habit addiction.
Walter [00:33:06]:
Yeah. And you know what? As you learn your purpose from a faith perspective, you end realizing, okay, my personal relationship with Christ is actually teaching me how to respect women. Because if I have dropped the ball on that by watching pornography, or I have idolized them in a different way, or maybe treated them as objects, let's say, because of how you go to this image to get off to realize that actually no. As a man and a woman, we each have our own callings to a purpose in a matter of speaking. We get to do life together and work together, and we each have value. And then when you understand that, oh, my goodness, it changes everything. I can serve my wife, I can love my wife. And you come together and you communicate that, and you grow together in that.
Walter [00:34:09]:
It's a beautiful thing when that happens.
Yvonne [00:34:15]:
And I want to know more about that. Specifically, I've got some questions about your relationship, and I just want to go back just a little bit. And do you remember the moment or the time when you decided that's it, this is it?
Walter [00:34:33]:
Yes, I do. It's unfortunate that I don't have shame on this today, but there was a while that I did. It was unfortunate that what caused me to make this decision was brokenness, is this awareness that I had broken my wife's heart and that I was on a path to destroying my marriage and possibly my family with my kids and all that. And so to realize that I've said this before, that I needed help and I didn't even realize that I needed help, which is scary. It's scary to think that sometimes we have to hit rock bottom to wake us up, shake us and go, whoa, you need to settle down. You need to realize that the road, the path that you're on right now in a matter of speaking, leading to destruction and you need to get off this path right now. And so I do remember the hurt and that was the initial, I think, shock that helped me realize that. But then it ended up leading into, you know what, actually there's so much more purpose in my life that I have not been tapping into because I've been stuck in this.
Walter [00:35:45]:
And so making that commitment to going, okay, I need help. And that's where restored ministries came in, where I needed to tap into community. And first of all, we talk about being courageous, is being courageous to go, I'm going to go and hang out with a group of guys and in my mind at first I'm thinking I'm going to get judged. I'm going to be the worst man in this group. And then you go in there and go, oh, wow, okay, this is actually a safe place. And not because we're enabling each other, but because we're meeting each other where we're at and going, there's hope you can start this healing process. And so that was the initial thing and I have to show my wife that I wanted to get help, that I wanted to do that. And then the reality is that she couldn't be that partner that could help me because she was the one that got hurt by it.
Walter [00:36:37]:
But I needed to step out of that and show her that I wanted to change things around. That was the initial part of that. And then for our marriage, she needed to get some help as well because there's this betrayal stuff that takes place and she needed to know how to handle that and I couldn't help her that. So we had pain on two different ends, right? I'm here the one who did it, shameful, broken, don't know what to do with my emotions. And she's going like, I'm the one that's been hurt. We had to go seek healing separately and then come together and work on our marriage.
Yvonne [00:37:14]:
I love that.
Walter [00:37:15]:
And honestly, that was the secret. And my wife values her relationship with Christ as well. So that ended up being a huge savior for me because we shouldn't be together because she could have decided to say, no, I'm not going to work on this. But that's not how she's wired. She wanted to work on this and because I showed her that I was willing to work on it and she realized that this was deeper than I just chose to do this. There's deeper things that were going on here. There's a lot of layers to this sometimes, right. And so you deal with the first layer and that kind of, okay, I took care of that and you go, oh, but now I'm ready to deal with this other thing.
Walter [00:37:57]:
Yeah, here's another and I don't think we should be afraid of that. I believe that we should be lifelong learners. Right. And we should be open to that. In different seasons of our lives, we're going to deal with different things. And I'm very aware of on that. There's probably some other rooted things that I haven't dealt with, but they're kind of more minor, but it's just not the time to deal with them because I'm dealing with other things, but it's not affecting me negatively because I'm dealing with the other things.
Yvonne [00:38:26]:
Right.
Walter [00:38:27]:
You just go on. And sometimes we think that it's tiring to work on ourselves, but it's actually energetic for me now, going like I'm actually every day I'm becoming the best version of myself. I'm stepping into my potential. And it's exciting.
Yvonne [00:38:41]:
It is. I hear you on that. I hear you on that. The excitement of, okay, here's another layer. And then, to be honest, some days it's like, why is there another layer? I thought I was done with this, but yeah, it's all so important and yeah, I love that you guys sought help separately. I find that so vital in a relationship that marriage counseling, I think, has its place, but I think it's so vital that each person seeks the support that they need. And I feel like, too, with your wife and with a situation like this, the fact that she did go and seek support herself and that she wanted to work on the marriage, I can't help but wonder if maybe she also recognized some of her own issues that she may have had. Like, for instance, the lack of speaking what she needed from you or communicate at the beginning of the relationship.
Yvonne [00:39:39]:
Right. I'm sure that you guys both learned a lot about communication.
Walter [00:39:45]:
100%. We could probably call that standing up for herself. We need to understand that we all have a voice in this and we all need to stand up for ourselves in this. And I think my wife would tell you that that's one thing that she learned and saying, well, actually, no, that if this happens again, this is how we're going to deal with it and healing that and let's have an agreement and an understanding that this is how we're going to move forward, which is yeah, yeah. I love know the word that comes to mind sorry, Yvonne, is boundaries. It helps you understand boundaries as you learn to speak for yourself and healthy boundaries. Boundaries are good. Boundaries are really good.
Walter [00:40:27]:
And we sometimes think we're scared of them because they're going to set up these walls, and I'm going to have to live within that, actually. There's a lot of freedom in boundaries, in healthy boundaries, there's so much freedom.
Yvonne [00:40:39]:
Yes. And a lot of people, I would say, especially women, have not been taught how to set proper boundaries, and especially around a sensitive subject like this. If I think about my own life and growing up and the boundaries I was taught by the women in my family, they weren't really advocating for their own needs and for their own well being. Like, there was boundaries, but not for like, this is to keep me safe. This is to keep to advocate for my own pleasure, all these things. I was definitely not taught that. So going into relationships or dating, I definitely never had a conversation. I always assumed, while this man's probably watching porn because that's what all men do.
Yvonne [00:41:27]:
Even that is incorrect.
Walter [00:41:29]:
Right.
Yvonne [00:41:30]:
But it was my belief, and like, okay, I got to be cool about it. So it's like, just what mens do, and this is just totally fine. And never had the conversation and then felt objectified in the bedroom and put myself in those roles and then felt shitty about myself and, well, this person doesn't care about me. Like, all these narratives today, I have my values, I have my boundaries, and for me, porn, it's not acceptable in a relationship, it's so important to have those conversations. So I'm wondering what you would suggest for people that are just maybe getting to know each other, dating, or even maybe for a couple that has been in a relationship that has never had this conversation, that it hasn't been spoken, what's a good way to or what's important to know about having these conversations?
Walter [00:42:32]:
Okay, so there's a thought. Maybe if you allow me to back up a little bit and even talk about some studies that I have come across, because I think this will play an important role, because it's good to understand that when we're going to have these conversations, there's some rooted things that could be connected to this. So I'll give you an example. There was a study done a couple of years ago that said that the average age of children to watch pornography that come across pornography is age twelve, which is very interesting because I just told you that I probably watched it around the age twelve. So I actually kind of line up in that stat. Yeah, 15% of that group watched it before they were ten years old. It's crazy. And it even gets a little bit crazier that I think it was 84% of kids when they clicked on a link, the type of pornography that they watched had to do with rape, violence, or abuse.
Walter [00:43:35]:
That is what kids have watched. This has nothing to do with addiction. We talked about curiosity and being maybe in the wrong place at the wrong time. Right. So this is what we got impacted, you think about as a child, as a kid, a teenager, even, the things that we're learning were like magnets, right? We're sucking in information and this is what we come across. So you got then, boys, let's say, looking at this and going, oh, this is what sex is, that I need to choke, I need to be abusive, I need to hurt. Oh, this is what women like. Or a woman will go and watch this.
Walter [00:44:17]:
A young girl will watch this and say, oh, this is what I need to be like, this is what I need to project when I am having sex in the future. It's ridiculous to think that this is what pornography is doing for kids. In fact, Yvonne, later on there was another study that said one in four young adults admitted to using pornography as a way to teach them about sex, which when I saw that, it kind of blew me away to say, wow, it's not even about a teenager and kid anymore. That even the young adults are going, well, I want to learn something and this is what I'm using to teach me how to be in a relationship and be intimate with my wife or my partner or whoever it is, right. And so, wow, you hear this, right? And so now you're asking me about how do we bring it up? Bring it up is the first thought that comes to my mind, having a core value? And I love how you shared as well, that you have a core value now, that pornography does not belong in your relationship. And I think as individuals and for your audience of women, that they need to make a decision that this is not going to be part of your relationship and self lead yourself into that and have those values. And when you have that core value that this is how you want to start a relationship or this is how you would love to build a relationship on you now go and you can bring it up to a man and ask, do you watch pornography? But here there's a caution that comes with this recommendation, ladies, be aware that you might end up hearing something you do not want to hear. That is part of it.
Walter [00:46:10]:
That's the risk factor here. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it because this is a cool opportunity, especially if you're dating. You bring it up to a guy and you ask him, are you watching pornography? How he reacts will tell you a lot. If he admits and says, yes, I do watch it, or I haven't watched it for a bit, or It's on and off. And if you tell them, listen, this is not something that I'm comfortable with, or I don't want this to be part of a relationship, how he reacts to that could give you a good idea on where this relationship is going to head, because if he's willing to say, okay, you're right. You know what? I understand why this is not good. I want to get help, or I want this to be out of my life. But if he's not willing if he's not willing, I think that tells you a lot.
Walter [00:46:57]:
And that's the beauty of dating, right? Dating is this courting sometimes. And I remember when I started dating, I called me old fashioned Yvonne. I had this core value that I didn't want to date somebody if I didn't see myself marrying. Just that was one of my core values. And of course, did I date. And some relationships didn't work out. Yeah, they didn't. But at least I didn't feel like I was wasting my time.
Walter [00:47:24]:
I was trying to set it up on a proper foundation. Right. And so when you have these values, then you can come. And you and I were just talking about standing up for yourself. Well, stand up for yourself now. And I think the key word here is communication. You think about the lack of communication is what ends up creating bigger problems later. Because if I would have known or I didn't know it has been happening for this long, and now you got to deal with it then and work on your communication.
Walter [00:47:53]:
But if you can work on your communication from the start and keep working on it and working on it, it'll never be perfect. We're human beings. Right? But you will end up probably preventing a lot of future challenges if you learn how to communicate. And the best way to learn is by actually start doing it. I have to tell you that. And if you're in a relationship already or you're married, and if you don't know the answer, whether your significant other is watching pornography or not, it's time to go ask. It's time to bring up the conversation. Let's stop making it this awkward conversation or an assumption that we know what's happening, because the reality is we may not know.
Walter [00:48:39]:
And when you bring things into the light, it creates the opportunity to then actually work on it. It doesn't have to be a deal breaker necessarily, thank God, because I'm still married and we're doing amazing. But I do know that there's been scenarios where the other partner just can't handle it. And we all have our own journeys on that, right?
Yvonne [00:49:04]:
Yes, definitely. Yeah. It's so important to communicate that early on, I think for women, too, when they ask the question, do you watch pornography? And when they're clear on either, I'm okay with it, if they're okay with it. I don't know if that conversation is as important, but if they're not, to be like, no, this is not okay for me. And to believe that I think there's so much worthiness associated with this, that I am worthy to be with a man who respects my view on this and my feelings about it, and then to have the courage to speak. But I feel like in order for us to speak, to set these boundaries, we need to feel worthy that we're worthy of someone, to respect our feelings on that. And then I come back to for you, it was the relationship with Jesus, this greater purpose, this greater connection. And I feel like with women too, for our own worthiness, we have to feel connected to something greater.
Yvonne [00:50:10]:
And yeah, whether that's Jesus or whether it's some kind of spirit or.
Walter [00:50:17]:
I'm.
Yvonne [00:50:17]:
Not sure I'm articulating this properly, but.
Walter [00:50:20]:
I think you're nailing it. Yvonne, whoever's listening to this, I need you to know that you're worthy. I think we need to speak that because maybe you're waiting for somebody to say that to you, and maybe you're doubting or maybe you're not feeling, but you're worthy, and you were created with so much more intention than thinking that your voice doesn't matter or what you think or your values don't matter. They do matter. And that's why we need to speak up. We need to stand up and say, okay, no, this is what I want and I deserve better. I don't need to settle. I don't need to settle.
Walter [00:50:58]:
As you discover that and realize that you were created on purpose, for a purpose, definitely, that you are loved. And that's where my faith comes in. You hear me talking that, but it's the truth. It's the truth because it's like to understand that you're not just floating through time and space right now just because no, that there's so much more. And depending on how long you have to live on this Earth, go on this journey of do it at your own pace, but go on this journey of discovering that there is so much more to what you're experiencing and that there's this meaning. And that's why I have to specifically say that I believe in Jesus, because when I think about the universe or I think about God being this greater thing, the problem with that for me is that it's not personal and that I believe that there's a God that wants to be personal. And so when you have a creator that made you on purpose, that means that, why don't I go discover my purpose through him and go, okay, well, there's value in me. That women have value, that these things that distract us want to distort that and want to make us think that we're actually not of value and that we don't matter.
Walter [00:52:25]:
And that's not true. That's not true. You do matter. We need to go on this journey of healing, actually, as an individual, I am of value, and I can come into a relationship and still have that same value. And I don't need a man to complete me. I don't need a woman to complete me. We're each our own. But when you come together like that, wow, talk about creating magic and power in that, right?
Yvonne [00:52:56]:
Yeah. Like the power of creation itself happens between two people, I think, like, that love and that two whole people coming together and just creating, creating love, creating joy, meaning.
Walter [00:53:12]:
I think you mentioned earlier on you give up a bit of yourself sometimes when you're with another partner or even with watching pornography and all that. But the cool part about it, though, is that there is healing possible. There's possibility for healing and restoration. There's a way to redeem that and you're not your past. So you can end up choosing today to say, I'm going to do things differently. It doesn't matter. It matters in a sense, like there's consequences for things that you do, but that can be broken off. And I believe that your story, your brokenness, whatever it is, can be used today to not even just make you a better person.
Walter [00:53:56]:
But you never know who you're going to help because of that story. You might be preventing somebody else from going down a path that they might not be able to get out of. But because of your story, your bravery and your courage to say, okay, this is where I've been and I can only tell you my experience with it, but this is why you shouldn't allow pornography in your relationship. And I know that there might be some different views, but when I see the brokenness that has caused not only in men but in women, I could not sit here and look at you in the eyes and say, I think it's okay to dabble with it. I just can't say that. I just have seen too much brokenness come out of it and it's just not worth the risk. Even if you thought, well, Walter, I've been watching it and it hasn't done anything. Actually, my wife knows and she's okay with it.
Walter [00:54:49]:
I have to be the opinion of that. You're not okay with it because at some point you're going to get disconnected. You're not going to feel like the one that you could the potential of being one like that and not have that divide you. There's just so many things and it's dangerous because the things that it does to your brain, Yvonne, it creates this high. There's also another part of the brain that gets activated that at some point what you're looking at is not enough anymore. It doesn't suffice. So now your brain wants to look for the next high. And you know what? Let's just be real.
Walter [00:55:24]:
What could end up happening? Well, you could end up breaking the law. You could end up doing things that will get you into some deep, deep trouble. You hear about the stories about sex trafficking and pedophilia. It's not worth it. Even if nobody starts watching this with the intention that they're going to end up in jail because they got caught watching the wrong thing, nobody has that intention. Nobody wants that. But that's how deep and rooted this gets. And so I have to advocate and say, the root of what happens here, it is not worth it.
Walter [00:55:59]:
It's just not worth it because sometimes we lose control. We lose control. And if we're not in community and if we're not seeking help, oh, my goodness.
Yvonne [00:56:08]:
Yeah.
Walter [00:56:09]:
You wake up one day going, how did I get here?
Yvonne [00:56:15]:
Wow. Yeah. What's coming to my mind, too, is this lens that sometimes spun, especially for women. Oh, these women that are in the porn industry, they're empowered, they're empowering themselves, they're bringing in them. Let's see, it's great money and they're taking charge, they're calling the shots. And my opinion just is there's no empowerment in that. I don't know what kind of relationship these women have with their bodies, but if as a woman, you believe your body is a holy temple and it's sacred, like God, Jesus, the universe, whatever created you in this holy way, like, we're here. We're all miracles.
Yvonne [00:57:05]:
So if you believe your body is holy and sacred, that doesn't match with allowing various men for money to insert themselves into your body. That has nothing to do with female empowerment. And I believe this narrative is coming from the people in that industry anyway, to try to sell women on it or I don't know, but I definitely don't believe it has anything to do with female empowerment.
Walter [00:57:38]:
And there have been women that have come out of the industry and have shared their stories and have told stories about how horrible it was. They never enjoyed it. This is the thing about pornography, gives this image of, like, this is great, right? This was so good. But then you hear from the actual people that acted in it and they go, no, I was abused. I got told to do things that I never felt comfortable with and I never advocated for myself. And I ended up doing things that have really caused a lot of shame and have done some other things to their bodies. And you go, and when we think that this is the role models of how to improve our sex life. But in reality, they got caught up in whatever their story is, right? No judgment at all.
Walter [00:58:31]:
But whatever their story of why they ended up getting guided into that. And the more stories you hear, I know there might be an odd one out there that might think is okay, but most of the stories out there go, no, it was a horrible experience. And they will advocate to saying, stay away from it.
Yvonne [00:58:51]:
Yeah, well, I think it's so important that you're now talking about this, your own experience. Like you said, if you can help someone that's in the midst of it, that's in the midst of this shame and feeling like a piece of shit, pretty much that you can help, and the statistics that you gave on kids and the amount of young people that are getting into it, I'm really not surprised. I don't want to say the state of the world because I believe the world is a good and a light and a kind place and then at the same time there is a lot of people that are in these dark, deep emotions. So the more people can step into their purpose and get out of it and help the next generation move out of those habits as well. Hopefully one day this isn't going to be a topic that we'll even have to discuss 100%.
Walter [00:59:47]:
I love it. I love what you said. There is hope and I think there is ways to I know there's different opinions about the state of the world, but I think there's still some great people and there's some great people that are trying to better themselves. And I think as that continues going on, it creates ripple effects that you just never know where it's going to go. But we can't just sit around and do nothing when you realize that there are some other things that are rooted in our lives and we can't be ashamed of that. We all have some sort of brokenness but I think the key is don't be afraid to ask for help. There is no shame in asking for help. There's no judgment in asking for help regardless of what it is.
Walter [01:00:30]:
And maybe some of the hurt that you have in your life has coming out in running to pornography, women or men. But we can deal with some of the other things and realize, oh, this hurt that I had, and I had plenty of that. I have a sick child that ended up I didn't know how to deal with that, even though I knew the answer. It just is so easy to run to pornography and because I didn't want to deal with that, I'm now dealing with this. And then when you step back and you go, now that this is out of the way, okay, how do I deal with this pain that I had? How do I get honest with myself that I need some more help or that I am hurt? And just sometimes honesty of where you're at a reality check is the best way to start to getting on your healing journey. Don't be surprised sometimes that healing can be very quick and yes, it might take longer, but it depends right, on your willingness to accept the help and to activate that.
Yvonne [01:01:37]:
Yes. All right, so oh my God, this is like going to be the longest conversation, I feel like the least amount of editing, but it's also interesting. But I do want to, before we start wrapping up, ask you where your relationship with your wife is at today and where you're at and your family. I would just love to know that a little bit more.
Walter [01:02:08]:
I'm in a great spot, Yvonne. Even coming on here and chatting with you is a bit of a healing process as well. There's a thing. That happened because we're talking about it. And if I can help somebody through something that I said even in a small little way, oh my goodness, I've done a lot, but we're good. I strongly believe that healing is going to be a long process because like I mentioned before, there's always little different things that come up. But my marriage is the best that it's ever been. My children, I think it's made me a better father, made me a better husband, a better friend.
Walter [01:02:56]:
Because I'm realizing that I've taken away some of these wedges that were in my relationships and these are not barriers anymore. I can actually think straight and I can actually, as I've said already, step into my purpose and realize, okay, this doesn't define me and what I've done and this doesn't have to be my answer to any hard challenges that I go through. And my wife, the fact that she has decided to step into her own healing, now we can both have some boundaries. We can have some talk about our values and maybe communication that we didn't do. I thought we had a very decent relationship prior to that, but there was these things that we hadn't talked about which actually created some problems to be able to come together and say, okay, we're going to work on this together and make sure this is not an issue again. Oh my goodness, it's huge. Because we want longevity in our marriage and as parents, this has been a great start. Now it's actually going to change how the conversation happens here in this household when it comes to talking to my kids because they don't need to repeat what I went through and that's my desire is to set them up in a way to be able to have, okay, we're going to have the sex talk.
Walter [01:04:26]:
You're not going to go and get your education with pornography and knowing the stats of how young my oldest is eight and so like, whoa, okay, that means that this is creeping around and you are going to click this thing. Especially today. We're living in a time where social media and the internet, it is so easy, maybe different from between when you and I were growing up, that we had to go to a magazine to first get our initial introduction to pornography. Kids are not needing to do that anymore. This is just a click away and we don't even know what kind they're going to watch, which could really impact their lives. Right? Yeah, I'm excited. Part of this healing has also got me to work with restored Ministries, which I want to help other men experience the same type of healing and freedom that I'm experiencing. And to tell you that there's hope out there, that even if your marriage is struggling, well, let's just start with helping you first, and then let's try to bring your wife on board or your partner on board.
Walter [01:05:29]:
To get some help so you guys can work on it together. Right? And so there is so much brokenness through pornography that there's a lot of work to do, but there's a lot of good work to do. And I think that we'll start one specifically for restored ministries, one guy at a time. There's also help for women, of course, but let's help these guys just recenter and let's get you healthy and let's get you to commit to some boundaries and on purpose forward so you can be the best version of yourself, right?
Yvonne [01:06:08]:
Yes. That's beautiful. I've known a few men in my life that have been part of men's groups and I feel like that type of concept, I don't know if it's picking up momentum, but this community of men that are there for each other I think is so vital. How would you encourage, I guess, a man to consider going to a men's group, to joining a male community?
Walter [01:06:37]:
Yeah. So pornography is going to want you to stay isolated. It's going to want you to do it on your own, and you have been doing it on your own. From a male perspective, you first need to know that there is no judgment. We're not about comparing stories, but there might be somebody out there that has a worse story than you. Let's just get that out of the way and realize that there is no judgment. We're here, we want to help. And in community, the reason community is so important is because there's accountability.
Walter [01:07:10]:
There's accountability that ends up taking, like caring for you and seeing how you're doing. Sometimes accountability can get a little bit messed up because depending on how you were taught, you go, well, when I mess up, I will then go and confess and tell my group of guys and then in my circle, they'll pray for me or they will encourage me. But we want to help guys understand that you don't have to be reactive to this stuff. You can be proactive. You'll learn these triggers that come into your life. You'll learn these temptation points where you go, okay, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling too alone right now. And this is starting to create these emotions in me that want to make me run to pornography. And I go, whoa, stop right there.
Walter [01:08:02]:
Reach out to your accountability, reach out to your community. And I've had guys that reach out to me and they go, walter, I'm not feeling well today. I feel down. It has nothing to do with pornography. Like, this happened at work and in the past I would always run to pornography. And so I just wanted to let you know. And that gives me an opportunity to encourage them, to pray for them and say, hey, put this type of music on, think about this, let's talk it out. It sounds like you're trying to do this on your own by willpower, and why don't you go pray and ask to get some strength from the Lord.
Walter [01:08:38]:
And when you start talking to guys like that, they go, oh, my know, even as simple as understanding gratitude. Funny enough, at the time of this recording, we're celebrating Thanksgiving in Canada here, but gratitude is a huge part of it. I'll give you an example of one. So sometimes guys will say, well, when this happened, I would always turn to porn. And this is how I thought I've been doing so well. And suddenly now I'm feeling this urgent attemptation to go to it, even though I haven't done this for months. And you will stop for a second. This is an opportunity to be thankful.
Walter [01:09:16]:
You just said that you used to run to porn every time you felt like this, but you're not. You're actually talking to me or you're talking to your friends. And so this is an opportunity to be thankful and say, I am not who I used to be. And so that's already a change. And the fact that you acknowledge that now you're experiencing freedom. Okay, so what did you do before? Well, I used to always go to my bedroom or I used to go hide in the bathroom. Well, let's change the routine around. Let's force ourselves until we make new habits.
Walter [01:09:49]:
They say that habits, right? Like you don't just cut old habits out, you have to replace them. So let's teach you how to replace these habits so then you don't have to be stuck in the old routine. And so practicing gratitude, I think it's undervalued to be grateful in all circumstances, to be thankful in all areas. And sometimes you have to go deep. I had to do some work in this area to go deep into my past and go this area in my life. That hurt me a lot. As hard it was for me to admit there was actually things that I could be grateful about. And believe it or not, Yvonne, it broke a lot of things off me.
Walter [01:10:29]:
It led me to forgiving. It led me to realizing like, this doesn't have a hold of me. I have a choice here on how I'm going to react, and I'm not going to let my emotions lead, but I'm going to let my values and how I want to live my life lead me. And it's a beautiful thing because then you start seeing how men get equipped to know how to deal with that. And it's not just this one time healing. When men are healing, sometimes they get stuck in this, well, I'm an addict. Well, this is the thing. I think you might have the tendencies of an addict, but once you decide to commit to your healing, I believe that Christ can break these things off you.
Walter [01:11:15]:
And so you're a new creation. Like you're not who you used to be, so you're not an addict. So you don't identify as an addict. Stop telling yourself that you're an addiction, because you're not. You might have been one day. So we're now moving forward. And so as we continue forward, you slipped up, okay? That was an event that happened. So what did you learn from that? Okay, just because you slipped up maybe six months in doesn't mean that you're back to the square one.
Walter [01:11:42]:
Some guys buy into that lie and that is not true. And, okay, let's just keep going and you keep doing these building blocks, right, these foundational things, and then you end up one day and suddenly you go, oh man, I don't even know the last time I saw it. It's been years.
Yvonne [01:11:57]:
Yes. It's so powerful. Like the power of our words, the power of our thoughts detaching ourselves from these stories that we've told ourselves, like, I am a binge eater or I am a porn addict, or I am an insecure person or I have anxiety. Stop those stories. And like you said, the gratitude or the appreciation, celebrate your little wins and before you know it yeah, all of a sudden you won't be going to these habits anymore. It's really powerful in that way. And if you can have community that can support you on that journey or someone who's been through that journey, I think that's super powerful.
Walter [01:12:43]:
Yeah, of course. Because I think we're built for community, regardless of what community that is, and to be able to do life together with people, it's huge. And I think that's undervalued sometimes. And so if we can learn to tap into community and realize, okay, sometimes I might feel a little too weak, but somebody else's strength and belief will be enough to help me move through that hard day and to tap into we have, through Restored Ministries, opportunities for people to have one on one coaching and group coaching. But we advocate for group coaching because it's great if you have some help one on one, but if you don't know how to live that out in community, it may not last. And so I'm an advocate for one on one coaching 100%, I experienced that myself. But the group coaching is where you go and live out life, and you put it into practice, and by being generous with what you're learning with other guys, it comes back. And it's such a beautiful thing that takes place as you grow together and you encourage each other and you go, wow, I don't have to do this alone.
Walter [01:13:56]:
And that's sometimes the thing that really gets us right? When we isolate.
Yvonne [01:14:00]:
Yes, definitely. Yeah. So as you're talking about it, if someone is listening or whether that's a man or someone who knows a man who might be experiencing some of this, how can they reach out to you? And also tell me about because we chatted about this before, like the app that you I think that's also through restored ministries, is that right?
Walter [01:14:24]:
That's right.
Yvonne [01:14:25]:
So, yeah, tell us about how someone could get in touch and take those first steps.
Walter [01:14:29]:
Yeah, so I got my hands on a couple of different things just because I do my own business and I help with Restored Ministries. So to get a hold of me directly, you could get a hold of me through my website or theleaderco theleaderco CA and you can see some of the stuff I'm working on there. So if you wanted to chat with me more directly but I have to advocate for Restored Ministries because that's where I'm doing some of the I get the opportunity to work with guys. So that's Restoredministries CA, and there's a podcast, I'm not the one that's on the podcast, but Matt Klein, who is the founder of Restored Ministries is on there. And there's some great episodes there that help they tackle some of these topics. They go deep on different things that you just never know. They bring on guests that they interview that are experts on the topic as well. And that's called Pure Victory podcast.
Walter [01:15:26]:
And the app that you're talking about, it's called the Pure Freedom Community and it's for 18 plus for men, 18 plus. And it's a free app. So if you come on there, nobody's going to charge you anything. I mean, we will educate you on other things that you can access if you want more coaching, but the Pure Feeding community app can be found on I just want to make sure I remember this correctly. At Purefc CA, you go on there, you can say that you're a dude and that you want to have access to it. And we'll let you in and you'll come in and make a profile. You can put up a picture if you'd like and tell us a little bit about yourself. And basically we're there to support, we do some trainings, we do some teachings, different people post things.
Walter [01:16:11]:
I'm on there consistently welcoming guys on and encouraging you to let us know where you're at. If you need prayer, if you need support, you need some advice, we'll give it to you there. Right. And so if there's a man in your life or a guy is listening to this go on there, you're welcome. Like I said, it's not going to cost you a cent. And let me be clear on this, it's a judgment free zone. You need to hear that because I know that's the scary part when you're entering something like this. But yeah, restored ministries has some different offerings with coaching.
Walter [01:16:46]:
If a guy needs to go in a little bit deeper and we can even have some recommendations there for women as well. So that's where you can find us and look around and check us out.
Yvonne [01:16:58]:
Excellent. I will be linking all that in the show notes. So, yeah, I'll be linking that below for everyone to check out. I think that's a great apps are, I think just also for a safe way to kind of start exploring community for kind of start exploring speaking what might be going on with you in a safe way that's still kind of not as maybe as intimidating at first as like a in person physical kind of group. I love that. And it fits into the day to day as well.
Walter [01:17:33]:
Yeah, well, I'll add then too, because we're in a social media world. It's on Facebook as well. You can go to restored ministries on Facebook or restored sexuality for Instagram. That's a good way to get introduced because I know that this can be a little scary, but don't be please come on and let's see if we can help you out so you can not have to have this be part of your identity. Let's break this off and realize that there's more for you.
Yvonne [01:18:02]:
Yes. Awesome. Okay, Walter, what is the final question? Like an hour and a half. Wow, I didn't think we'd go this long, actually. I did, actually. Yeah. What's if you have just one piece of advice for in this case, it's going to be most likely a woman listening. What's one piece of advice that you would like to share?
Walter [01:18:34]:
Wow, I've said this already, but I need you to know that you have a voice and that you're valued. And so if you face betrayal that that's not the end all that there is ways to find healing in that and for you to find your worth and realize, no, I got a voice and I can stand up for myself. And so set this core value that you don't want this to be part of your life and don't let it be part of your relationships and communicate that and stand up for yourself and go, okay, how can I invite your significant other, your partner into that and work on it together. You don't have to do this alone. And so just make the choice to make this a value and then allow that to then be such a positive thing as you move forward in your relationship. It doesn't have to be part of your relationship. You don't have to settle for that. And if it is, there is help and there is healing.
Walter [01:19:41]:
And don't be courageous to ask for help because that's where the beginning of healing starts. And there is help and there is hope and I have tons of stories to tell you that there is people that are getting healed and so you don't have to live with that.
Yvonne [01:19:57]:
Yeah. To have the courage to speak your value, have the courage to set your boundary, have the courage to ask for help. And yeah, that word courage, I love that it's just, like, made this repetitive appearance in our episode today and yeah, I just love that you had the courage today again to speak about your journey. And for me as well, the topic is I've been excited about it, but also a little bit apprehensive about it. So I'm glad we both had the courage to show up here today, and it's just been an amazing conversation. Walter, I so appreciate everything that you I agree.
Walter [01:20:42]:
Yeah. This has been an amazing opportunity, amazing time to have this conversation. And thank you. Yes. Thank you for having the courage and inviting this conversation onto your podcast. I think that you're going to impact a lot of lives.
Yvonne [01:20:54]:
Thank you, Walter. Yeah. And you as well. It's amazing that you're out there doing your work and helping men heal from. Yeah.
Walter [01:21:05]:
Thank you.
Yvonne [01:21:05]:
Yeah. Love it. Thank you. So so before we really wrap up today, it's your birthday, what song are you going to put on today that you're going to boogie to?
Walter [01:21:16]:
Not only am I going to put it on, I already put it on. And I love this question. I love music, so there's a lot of different answers to this. But one song, this actual song my wife and I walked into the reception to, and it's called Coco K-O-K-O by Sander Van Duress or Doors Sandra Van. And it's no words, but it's one of those almost, like, EDM type of songs that just has a really cool beat. And like I said, there's many songs I could have said, but I wanted to say that because I think your audience are going to enjoy to dance to that.
Yvonne [01:21:51]:
I love that. I'm going to listen to it as soon as we get off, actually.
Walter [01:21:55]:
Yes. Do it.
Yvonne [01:21:56]:
Awesome. Well, thank you again, Walter. It's been such a treat. Thank you.
Walter [01:22:01]:
Well, thank you for having me on. It's been such a privilege to do this. Thank you so much. I don't take this lightly. Von, this is such a privilege that you would invite me on to here. My desire is to I'm a big potential guy. I want to help people maximize their potential. And if this happens in a little way, you've opened up a door for me to do that.
Walter [01:22:41]:
And so thank you. It's been a lot of fun.
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